11-10-1978 - Recessed/Regular
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CITY OF EDGEWATER
RECESSED COUNCIL MEETING
November 10, 1978
Mayor Christy called the meeting to order at 1:00 P.M. This
was a continuation of the regular Council meeting on November 8,
1978 that was recessed until November 10, 1978 at 1:00 P.M.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Robert H. Christy
Councilman Louis J. Rotundo
Councilman David C. Ledbetter
Councilman Walter B. Sikes
Co u n c i 1 m'a n N e i 1 J. As tin g
City Attorney Judson Woods
City Clerk Sue Blackwell
Police Chief Earl Baugh
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Present
Mayor Christy: This is a continuation of the meeting of November
8th and all usual business on the Council agenda will be deleted
because the motion that was made by Councilman Ledbetter and
seconded by Councilman Asting was to recess the regular meeting
on November 8th until November 10th at 1:00 P.M. for the purpose
of reevaluating City employees and appointees. I do not know /
how these gentlemen intend to reevaluate employees and appointees
when they only took office on November 8th. I would recommend
that they go around City Hall and really get information together.
Mr. A s tin gin the pas t c 0 u p 1 e, 0 f day s has don e t his and has bee n
in City Hall on Thursday and today. I have been around here over
a year and there is still a lot that I don't know. I don't know
if someone can compile that much information in that short of time
or not. However, we are at this meetina now and before I do anythinq
further I would like to inform the public that I received a phone '
call stating that there was a recall petition going out. I want
everyone to know there is a recall petition going out and I know
about it. Mr. Ledbetter, you made the original motion, would
you start off the meeting?
Councilman Asting: I think the Council should decide who the Vice
Mayor and Acting Mayor are going to be.
Mayor Christy: That" will be at the first regular Council meeting
on November 13th.
Councilman Asting: I make a motion that this matter be taken up now.
Mayor Christv: The Council is here because of a motion and the motion
is to reevaluate employees and appointees. Mr. Attorney is that motion
in order?
Mr. Woods: I believe it would be.
Councilman Ledbetter: I second the motion.
Mayor Christy: We have a motion from Mr. Astinq, seconded by Mr.
Ledbetter. Would you repeat your motion please?
Councilman Asting: I made a motion that the matter of appointing
the Vice Mayor and Acting Mayor be brought up at this time.
Mayor Christy asked if there were any questions on the motion from
the Council.
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Councilman Sikes: I believe that the Charter reads that the
selection and appointing of the Vice Mayor and Acting Mayor be
at the first regular business meeting after the swearing in of the
new Councilman.
Mayor Christy: We should ask the Attorney.
Mr. Woods: Didn't they amend that Sue, 932?
Mrs. Blackwell: It was in October or November of 1973. It says
the first regular meeting after the November election.
Mayor Christy: The amendment to 932 was 994.
Mr. Woods: Sue, maybe you can help me out, I don't see anything
here in the Charter that covers this. It talks about the time
of organizing to elect one of the members as Mayor of the City.
Mrs. Blackwell: The amendment that was adopted in 1973 by the people
says at the first regular meeting after the November election. The
question here is whether a recessed meeting is a regular meeting
because they could have properly taken it up the other night.
Mr. Woods: This is not on the agenda for this meeting.
Mrs. Blackwell: There was only one motion on that.
Mr. Woods: The resolution calls for any item to be placed on the
agenda to be in Friday before 12:00 noon.
Councilman
agenda?
Sikes:
Do you have to have these questions on the
Mrs. Blackwell: Yes, sir,
Mayor Christy: Look in Section 2-24.
Mr. Woods: I would have to rule that you can only consider the
items on the agenda for today. That was the purpose of the motion.
That would be my ruling.
Councilman Ledbetter: Then I have a question to ask the City
Attorney. There was two members of the Council elected and sworn
in Wednesday night at 7:30, is that right?
Mr, Woods: That's correct.
Councilman Ledbetter: The Charter says the first regular meeting of
the new Council.
Mr. Woods: Which would be next Monday night.
Councilman Ledbetter: Then what were we doinq here Wednesday night?
Why didn't we wait till Monday night at the regular meeting to be
sworn in?
Mr. Woods: I believe that's covered, your election is on Tuesday,
you have it on election night.
Councilman Ledbetter: Mr. Armstrong do you have a copy of the original
- -Charter with you?
Mayor Christy: This Charter right here is our Charter and I believe
you hav~ a copy of it. This is the Charter. This is what we are
going by. If you can give us a date or a page number which will
refer to that as you are saying that it is legal to do at any meetings
like this, I would like to know it.
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Councilman Ledbetter: Then if a new Council went in Wednesday night
how could there have been an aqenda set for today? You're hollering
for this subject to be on an agenda.
Councilman Asting: I was.. ...that Wednesday's meeting was not
classified as a special meeting, it was assumed to be a regular
meeting.
Mayor Christy: Correct and everything that was on the agenda was
gone through except for the last part, the adjournment.
Councilman Asting: We had no opportunity to have a voice in that
agenda at that time.
Mayor Christy: You could have notified the City Clerk.
(voicehovers tape not clear).
Councilman Asting: We had nothing at that time to add to the
agenda and it was not classified as a special meeting. It was a
regular Council meeting.
Mayor Christy: It was a regular meeting set up for the swearing
in of the officers.
Councilman Asting: Then why didn't it list all the items that
normally go on the agenda on the agenda sheet?
Mayor Christy: Because that is exactly what we went through.
We did nothing on approving minutes, bills and accounts, communications,
resolutions, ordinances, Old Business was Council remarks, New
Business was swearing in of new Council members; miscellaneous, none
and the other was adjourn. What else was there to go on?
Councilman Sikes: They weren't actually officials until they were
sworn in. They couldn't have added anything to the agenda.
Councilman Asting: After we were sworn in, it was a regular meeting?
Mr. Woods: The way I understand it, it was for the sole purpose of
swearing you in as Council members. We have a resolution which
requires that if you want to bring up something for discussion. it
has to be on the agenda and I try to go by the rules and I think
everybody should.
Councilman Asting: I will withdraw my motion and we will bring it up
later under miscellaneous.
Mayor Christy: How can you bring something up under miscellaneous
when there isn't any. Again, that would be out of order.
Mr. Woods: I think the way you would have to proceed, Mr. Asting,
would be to call a special meeting of the City Council with a 24
hour notice.
Mayor Christy: That's what it reads here in 994.
Councilman Asting: I withdraw my motion.
Councilman Ledbetter: I withdraw my second.
Mayor Christy:
to recess until
and appointees.
start?
Now we will proceed with the original part of the motion
1 and reconvene for reevaluation of City employees
Mr. Ledbetter you made the motion, would you like to
Councilman Ledbetter: I make a motion that we retain all City employees
with the exception of the department heads to be reevaluated.
Mayor Christy: I have a motion - is there any length of time or
anything you want to put on this.
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Councilman Ledbetter: Just what the motion said.
Councilman Asting: I second the motion.
Councilman Sikes: I donlt believe its ever been done, I could be wrong,
where we had any employee that is working for the City - they can
assume to be working until he is given notice of a right of a hearing
before the Merit Board and the Council at such time he might be
discharged. I see nothing wrong with it, myself, but this isn't
usually the practice. Everybody has the right to assume they are
working until they are notified by their Supervisor or Coordinator
that they have been suspended subject to the action of the Council.
Everybody that works for the City you donlt have to rehire them or
approve their rehiring every year. They have a right to expect they
will be working for the City until such time they are either laid off
or discharged from their duties because of not working. Even then,
they have a right to be suspended subject to a hearing before the
Council as per our Merit Ordinance. This is not needed.
Mayor Christy: There is one thing we do have is the system of the
Merit Board. You will have to go by it because it is on the books
as an ordinance.
Councilman Asting: I'd like to ask the attorney, do all City
employees work at the pleasure of the Council?
Mr. Woods: It would be my understanding that they do subject to review
by the Merit Board, if they are terminated.
Councilman Asting:We have to vote on this motion.
Mayor Christy: Audience, any questions on the motion?
Mr. Glaser: I live at 1703 Needle Palm Drive, Edgewater. I would
like to ask what the purpose of this motion is?
Councilman Ledbetter: I have talked to a lot of people during my
campaign and there is a lot of dissatisfaction with some of the
appointed people. This is nothing but a reorganizational meeting to
reorganize the City. I've heard that there is a majority of people
that belong to hate groups, 11m supposed to be part of that. That
is one purpose to try and bring a little harmony back into the City.
Mr. Glaser: If your motion covers all City employees with the exception
of the heads of the departments, yet they all work at the will of
the Council, why do you exclude them in the motion?
Councilman Ledbetter: You mean City employees now at work?
Mr. Glaser: No, why are you excluding the heads of the departments.
You said to retain all City employees with the exception of the
department heads. Does that mean that they are fired now?
Councilman Ledbetter: No, they are going to be reevaluated by the
City Council that is sitting here today.
Mr. Glaser: Then why aren't they included in the motion, that you
retain them, if they work at the will of the Council, I don't see
why you have to exclude them.
Mayor Christy: Mr. Glaser, I believe you did bring out a good point.
Mr. Glaser: lid like to say that we got rid of one person on the
Council. I thought that his attitude was the reason why he was
defeated and there were other people in the past I thought were voted
out for the same reason, the way they treated the people. I would not
like to or hope that I won't see from this Council some sort of
vendetta in the name of harmony. Whatever it is you are planning to
do, it may be justified, I don't know. I know for a fact, from
listening to people, that there are people who donlt like this person
or that person that works at City Hall because of the way they speak,
the way they dress or for whatever reason. I have heard that there
are a lot of people who get short answers when they come to City Hall
to ask for something and all I'd like to say is that in the past when
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there have been a large number of people in the audience that have
asked the Council to do various and sundry things and the Council
has gone against the wishes of the majority of the people in the
audience. They said they were doing this for the good of the City
because they knew best. A lot of times that made people mad.
The first person they see when they walk in that City Hall is an
employee of City Hall. I don't know how anybody else in the world
is but I know one thing, I can only take so much abuse from some-
body abusing me before I return it to them. If they deserve
the abuse, I realize it is inexcusable for a City employee to be
abusive to someone coming in and talking to them but I am just trying
to say that you ought to temper your justice because, in some cases,
I think that the reaction from the City employees is based upon
how agreeably the citizens project themselves too. Someone comes
in and starts pounding on you, you have to react to it. That is
the only thing I'm trying to say here. I get the feeling that all
of a sudden we've got some sort of a vendetta going and I've heard
these rumors and I was hoping that they weren't true. I was hoping
that you folks would sort of look at the situation and determine
if these things are really justified before you do them and not
try to do it based on somebody else's word. I feel you ought to
see it for yourselves.
Councilman Asting: Mr. Glaser, any action that may be voted on
today will be based on cause believe me.
Mayor Christy: I think we should take this into consideration, the
way the motion was made. The motion was retain all City employees
except the heads of the departments which will be reevaluated.
Now that isn't enough explanation.
Councilman Ledbetter spoke as the tape ended: III made the motion...
Tape 1-B starts with Mayor talking: ... .except heads
ments which will be reevaluated. Are they in or out?
laying everybody off? Are you keeping them or what?
doing?
of the depart-
Are you
What are you
Councilman Ledbetter: Did I make a motion to disoense of them? I
said reevaluate and the word means exactly what 10 said. To
reevaluate the heads of the departments.
Mrs. Phyllis Woodard, Orange Tree Drive, Edgewater: I have one
thing to say on evaluation. Usually when a new jurisdiction goes
in the newly elected officials reevaluate the organization ......
(the tape was not clear).
Mayor Christy: Anybody else like to speak on this? Call for the motion.
Upon roll call the motion CARRIED 4-1. Councilman Sikes voted NO, it
was not necessary.
Councilman Asting: I would like to make a motion that the appointment
of Dorothy Sue Blackwell, City Clerk, be terminated, effective
immediately and that she be given two weeks pay in lieu of two weeks
notice. If you want cause, I will give cause.
Mayor Christy: We'll get the motion off first.
Mrs. Blackwell: To terminate me immediately with two weeks pay in
lieu of two weeks notice.
Councilman Ledbetter: 1111 second the motion.
Councilman Sikes: I feel that Sue is being released because of
certain campaign promises. I don't feel that anyone has checked into
her qualifications and knows what she has done, fully, they have not
had the opportunity. They have not been in to check into the back-
ground enough to know what she has done. I got a call yesterday from
Mr. Cliff Cunningham. I want this clearly understood, he called me,
I made no calls to May, Zima and Co. I asked him about the affairs
of the City, he told me certain things about the bookkeeping and
recording of the documents. He more than anybody can determine who is
a qualified City Clerk. Cliff, if you woulct, I wish you would come up
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here ,'.'. ,la~two years what has happen~ Basically, I want '~
you to tell me what has been done while she has been City Clerk as
compared to the previous administrations, previous City Clerks and
just give us a report.
Mayor Christy: This is not out of order.
Mr. Cliff Cunningham: I am one of the ~rinciples of May, lima.
About a year ago the City entered into a contract with May, lima
to install a computer system. The computer is installed and has
been phased in and those phases that have been completed are working
very successfully. We have recently phased in the general ledger
portion. We were to get the first reports out today. I came down
to see what they look like, to review them ann at the same time
. ... ..in the City was for the fiscal year and.. ...find out who is
going to be here. Another reason is to attend the funeral of a friend
of mine. Your question is to compare the bookkeeping and records
recording transactions of the City at the present time as compared
with the past. May, lima has been involved with Edgewater for a number
of years. In prior years, it has taken as late as the month of
February to print the audit report and get it to the citizens and
taxpayers (very noisy tape, not audible)... .that tells me that your
records are in the best shape that they have ever been. When you
think about hiring a bookkeeper or City Clerk or an accountant, City
government today is big business. Whether you realize it or not, the
major portion of the money that you get comes from outside the City.
It does not come from within. Your City is only as good as your
employees. Today a large amount of money comes from Federal, State
Revenue Sharing, Anti-recession funds plus other grants that are
available. You must have someone in the position that knows what
you are supposed to get and how much you are supposed to get. It can
be very expensive to change this person for your City. You have a
number of large debts outstanding in the form of bonds. You must
have somebody that understands and can meet the requirements .....
For technical competence, Sue has done a good job. As far as
keeping the records, we have been able to ... .as to the fairness of
the financial position of the City of Edgewater, every year that
she has been your City Clerk, sometimes City Manager, Finance Director
.....the administrator of the City. May, lima is not in a position
of setting policy. Our position is to state the facts as we see them.
The only thing that we can say is we are satisfied with the work that
Sue has been doing.
Councilman Asting: Just moment sir, I have a question. Did May,
lima sell or act as a sales agent for the computer?
Mr. Cunningham: May, lima sold it but did not act as sales agent.
Councilman Asting: May, lima sold the computer to the City of Edgewater?
Mr. Cunningham: Yes, sir.
Councilman Asting: Then you have an interest in the computer?
Mr. Cunningham: Yes, sir,and the operation of the computer is a very
sophisticated operation.
Councilman Ledbetter: Mr. Cunningham, in all the years that May, lima
has been associated with Edgewater has there been a bad City Clerk?
Mr. Cunningham: I can't think of one, Mr. Ledbetter.
Councilman Asting: Mr. Cunningham, the fact that you sold the City
the computer means that you have an interest in it. Is that right?
Mr. Cunningham: Not necessarily.
Councilman Asting: Do you think that that's unethical?
Mr. Cunningham: No.
Councilman Asting: There's a question about that, Mr. Cunningham.
Councilman Sikes: lid like to ask Mr. Cunningham, you bid in on the
computer system just like several others, is that correct?
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Mr. Cunningham: Yes.
Councilman Sikes: If I remember correctly you were about $20,000
less than any of the other persons that bid in for the computer
along with the programming. Paul Walls, a former Councilman,
visited your office many times to be taught computer programming
at the DBCC as well as his involvement with the U.S. Army in the
first phase when they starting going computer. He checked out
your program and reported back to the Council that the best system
and program we could get into would be the one that was offered by
May, Zima but it did go out on bids, so there was no question about
the legality of that.
Councilman Asting: Mr. Cunningha~ are you still selling services
to the City on the computer?
Mr. Cunningham:It was one package deal.
Councilman Asting: Since the installation of that computer, M~
Cunningham, you have not sold anything else to the City that is
used in the computer?
Mr. Cunningham: No.
Councilman Sikes: This is a service contract it has nothing to do
wit h ..... Hew a s ask ed, a t my r e que s t, to s pea k 0 n be h a 1 f 0 f M r s .
Blackwell not the computer.
Mayor Christy thanked Mr. Cunningham and asked if there were any
more questions from the Council on the motion.
Councilman Asting: If you want cause, I will give the cause.
The cause for my motion - on September 27, 1978, the City Clerk,
Sue Blackwell, refused to answer questions put to her concerning
a matter of public interest. These questions were concerned with
the hiring of a private security agency to guard a person's home
in the City of Edgewater. The employment of this agency was an
expenditure of public funds that had not been budgeted for. It
was also done without a public meeting or the knowledge of all the
Council members, thereby making it an illegal act. On October 1st
Mrs. Blackwell stated to the newspapers that she authorized the
hiring of a security guard, yet, on September 27th she could not
remember who authorized it. At this same meeting on September 27,
Blackwell made the statement to the four persons present - "That if
I spill my guts, some people will go to jail" - or words to that
effect. This statement seems to indicate that Blackwell is in
possession of information of a criminal nature. During the inter-
view, Blackwell called in the Chief of Police, Earl Baugh, who
proceeded to make statements against the four citizens present
to the effect that they had knowledge of a fire incident that had
occurred. This appeared to be an attempt to divert the questioning
of Blackwell and to intimidate those present. Now these questions
that were asked of Blackwell could have been asked by any citizen
in the community, we were entitled to answers from a public official
concerning the affairs of our City. I may also add that Blackwell
is paid about $14,000 as compared with the salary of the City Clerk
of New Smyrna Beach whose pay has just been increased to $11,500
per year. The population of New Smyrna Beach is 17,000 as compared.
with Edgewater's 5,000.
Councilman Sikes: Mr. Asting, you were aware that there was a City
patrolman on duty at Mr. Dietz's house from the night of the fire-
bombing on until the results of the last election and it was costing
the City approximately $9.00 an hour by paying overtime for the City
policeman and that authorization to put a guard on Mr. Dietz's house
authorized by the Mayor in an emergency, the night this house was
fire bombed and he sent a memorandum to that effect and in trying
to cut the expense because of the budget prompted the getting in
touch with the Hawver Security Guard. That was a savings of $5.00
an hour to the taxpayers. Mr. Cameron delivered to me, yesterday,
a copy of this affidavit and you referred to it pertaining to this
fire bombing incident. It is in the hands of the City Attorney's
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office and..... information pertaining to anything that there will
be no discussion, whatsoever. If there is any question about
that you consult with the Chief and Bill Rickelman, the investigator
on that.
Councilman Asting: I would like to reply to Mr. Sikes comments.
The hiring of the security guard and the expenditure of public
funds should have been brought up at a Council meeting and not
done without that.
Mayor Christy: Jud, can you answer that.
Mr. Woods: I don't know if I can answer that Question. I think it
is within the discretion of the Mayor in an emergency situation
that had arisen to try to protect one of the Council members to
go ahead and hire somebody to try and protect his life. If it
is cheaper to hire a security guard certainly we shouldn't have
police officers at his house.
Councilman Asting: Mr. Judson.. , Mr. Woods
Mr. Woods: Mr. Woods, to you Mr. Asting.
Mr. Asting: I didn't mean to call you Mr. Judson, we are not
that friendly. The hiring of a private security agency to carry
out the surveillance was a separate matter from employing our own
police department to do it. It was a separate action altogether.
Mr. Woods: No comment.
Councilman Sikes: Mrs. Blackwell what was the total expenditure
for Hawver's Security?
Mrs. Blackwell: About $1100 dollars, I believe.
Councilman Sikes: According to the City Charter you are authorized
to spend how much?
Mrs. Blackwell: $2,000.
Councilman Sikes: Apparently it does not make a difference whether
we pay the City $9.00 an hour compared to $4.00 an hour.
Mrs. Blackwell: Mr. Asting is correct. I did indeed refuse to answer
his questions about what hours the security force was at Mr. Dietz's
house. I refused numerous times. When the bills came in, I asked
Mr. Hawver to bill us with the hourly wages, he turns in a sheet
for each shift that was covered. I gave those to the investigator
so they became part of the case so it would not become public. It
seemed foolish to me to hire a security force and say that they are
out there from whatever time they are there to whatever time they leave.
I did tell the gentlemen, in my office, the force was there from dark
until daylight and I thought that was a good enough answer when some-
ones's life might be in danger.
Councilman Ledbetter: Sue, don't.. .Mr. Asting, I was the party
that asked the hours.
Mrs. Blackwell: I bel ieve, Mr. Ledbetter there were four of you
and on different occasions, if you will listen to the tape, that more
than just you asked the hours.
Councilman Ledbetter: I was the one that asked if this was eight hours
or more.
Mrs. Blackwell: And I believe I told you what I just said, did I not?
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Mayor Christy asked if there was anyone in the audience who wished
to speak on the motion.
No one in the audience spoke at this time.
Upon roll call the motion CARRIED 3-2. Councilman Sikes and
Mayor Christy voted NO.
Mrs. Blackwell: Mr. Mayor, as I am to be terminated immediately
I take that to be immediately so I will leave and you will have to
recess long enough to get someone to finish the meeting and I would
like my two weeks notice plus all my vacations and holidays before
I leave this afternoon. I would like Mr. Cunningham to go with me
now to check out the cash drawers to see that there is nothing
missing.
Mayor Christy: We will take a 15 minute recess.
(end of Tape 1 A & B)
Mrs. Cornelia A. Kinsey, Deputy City Clerk, took Mrs. Blackwell's
place at the meeting.
Mayor Christy called the meeting back to order at 2:12 P.M.
Councilman Asting: I make a motion to terminate the employment
agreement between the City of Edgewater and David D. Kuyk, effective
immediately and that Mr. Kuyk be given two weeks pay in lieu of two
weeks notice.
Councilman Ledbetter seconded the motion.
Councilman Sikes: First of all I would like to ask the attorney
if there is a difference between an agreement and a contract.
Mr. Woods: No, Sir I believe it provides for thirty days notice
if 11m not mistaken and you had better state some causes for this
I think you are going to be in court and I would like to have some
causes for so terminating the man.
Councilman Sikes: I've read several items that appeared in the papers.
I quote Mr. Asting, lid just like to bring out two points. First of
all the contract for the new sewer plant went out in October of 75.
Mayor Christy: By giving out this information will that jeopardize
us at any time in court.
Mr. Woods: I don't know what Mr. Sikes is planning to say.
Councilman Sikes: The information that Mr. Asting is quoted in the
paper that Don Kuyk is fully responsible for the problems in the
sewer plant. I have information here pertaining to dates and its
available at City Hall that he wasn't even around or working for
the City when the contract went out for bids. When he first came
to work for the City of Edgewater he was hired in June of 76 and he
went into the Water Department and then in December of 77 for that
period of time he was the supervisor of the sewer and water departments.
But, that contract was let out and letters of acceptance to McMahon
which was our second bidder on May 17, 1976. He was not even an
employee of the City at that time. The problems of the sewer plant
could not be attributed to Mr. Kuyk in any way.
Councilman Asting: Mr. Kuyk was appointed Director of the Water
and Sewer Department by resolution on January 3, 1977.
CouncilmarrSikes: When was the contract let out?
Councilman Asting: I didn't say that Mr. Kuyk was present when the
contract was made I said that Mr. Dietz was and that later Mr. Kuyk
became involved. That's the statement I made to the papers and its
in the paper if you read it.
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Councilman Sikes: By January the first we are required by law
to have a Class B Operator. If we do not we are subject to fines
and the closing down of our system. (tape not clear)
I don't see how without being on the Council awhile - I have been
on the Council since 1974 and there is a lot of things that I still
don't know but I have every bit of paper that has been given to me
through the City Hall and I know that there are Class B and Class
C operators and things we need to have. We can be required even
after Mr. Kuyk's dismissal to either close our plant down or find
someone else to come in. How can a person evaluate a man when
they haven't seen any of his reports or what he's given to us since
September. I believe he came back to work the second time in Sept.
I just think that again this is a man that is trying to do the job
that he was appointed to do and somebody because of campaign
promises and getting elected are going to try to have the job and
have him replaced.
Councilman Asting: The cause is based on the fo.llowing. In December
of 1977, Mr. Kuyk resigned his job with the Edgewater Water and
Sewer Department. Prior to the issuance of this resignation it
was made known that he was leaving and would not return. This move
seemed designed to influence the existing political situation and
resulted in an unpopular political appointment. In May, 1978,
about five months later, it was being proposed that Mr. Kuyk be
rehired. This happened. Mr. Kuyk's salary was increased by $8,000
up from $10,000 to $18,000 per year and written into the agreement
whereby it is possible for him to earn up to $25,000 per year.
This is approximately $9,000 more than the Director of Public Works
for New Smyrna Beach. The population again of New Smyrna Beach is
17,000 while Edgewater1s is only 5,000. We cannot afford the
services of Mr. Kuyk.
Councilman Sikes: lid like to answer those questions. First of
all he has read the contract wrong. He will never exceed $25,000,
I believe he can go up to 10% in anyone year not to exceed $25,000
over a period of years. We get monthly reports, Mr. Ledbetter will
remember this from years past, giving the amount of water and sewer
that is treated at the plant and the amount of water bills. I look
at those reports. Last year we were pumping quite a few gallons of
water which over the years necessitated us getting a new plant.
About April 77 we noticed that there was a difference in the amount
of sewer treated. We could determine the difference but we
couldn't at that point tell where it was coming from. Now anybody
can see that from the reports that were given. During the election
that came about last year, Mr. Dietz was out on the first go around.
Mr. Kuyk turned in his resignation, he resigned October 28 effective
December something and in that time he wanted to allow Terry Wadsworth
to get his Class C operators license. He could have left at that
time but he requested the termination date be extended beyond the
point where Terry would have his Class C license and the sewer
department could continue operating. None of the other present
Council and I don't think even Mayor Armstrong caught this, but
during the time Mr. Kuyk was not with us, I don't know and its very
difficult for a layman or anybody that will come and serve on this
Board to know that much about pumping, pumping stations, the amount
of sewer treated and all that so that is what prompted me - we needed
somebody that was experienced - and that's why I reappointed Mr.
Dietz for that position. The rest of the Council voted on it and
then for that very reason, still not being able to figure out exactly
what the problem was, I also went along with hiring Don Kuyk as
our Public Works Director. Mr. Kuyk is not a dumb man. He was a
West Point cadet and majored in engineering. He went to Cornell
University for engineering and he has an honorable discharge from
West Point and I could go into that but I'm not going to. He is
not an engineer, he has an engineering background and here we are, we
need the man, we've got more problems in our City as far as the
water and sewer expansion program. We need that man here. First of
all we cannot act legally without replacing him and this is no threat
but if we fire him today, 11m going to call DER, Mr. Bostwick, and
Mr. Gordon at FHA. I'll just put the Council on notice.
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Councilman'Asting: I would like to answer Mr. Sikes remarks
on com pen sat ion. The con t r act rea d s 11 as com pen sat ion for his
services to the employer, during the term of this agreement,
in whatever capacity rendered, the employer shall pay the
salary of $18,,000 per year. An annual increase shall be determined
by the following: a total number of new customers added to the
system for a period of twelve months divided by the current years
beginning number of water customers will give percentage of increase
to be added to the current years base salary, not to exceed 10%
~ per year with further proviso that the employee shall not be en-
titled to receive a salary by the employer in excess of $25,000.
Councilman Sikes: That's exactly what I said, Mr. Asting. He
cannot exceed an increase of $1800. 10% of 18,000 is only $1800.
Councilman Asting: You didn't say that.
Councilman Sikes: Well, that's what the contract says, you're
reading the contract.
Mayor Christy: Gentlemen, let's not argue. Let's state facts
and try to keep it that way.
Councilman Asting: Here's something that bothers me, Mr. Mayor.
I quote from the newspaper, this morning's newspaper. A former
Councilman believes the City shares the blame for the new facility
with Briley, Wild. He said when the old plant was still in use
flow meter reports along with bacteria tests and monthly reports
were falsified. He claims that when the Federal Government became
aware of the wrongdoings the matter was covered up. Now who was
in the Water and Sewer Department at this time when these reports
were done. Mr. Dietz?
Mayor Christy: I believe it was Mr. Dietz. He was the coordinator
of the department at that time. Before him was Jack Bevel and
Councilman Sikes: For your information Mr. Mayor, the Mayor always
signed the reports.
Mayor Christy: Yes, which it should not be.
Councilman Sikes: The Mayor and the Coordinator did not prepare
those reports.
Mayor Christy: Let me ask the Attorney how much harm this will
do in our proceedings with Briley, Wild.
Mr. Woods: Go ahead.
Mayor Christy: I understand, Mr. Sig Ohrwall was in charge of the
plant until 8-12-76 and at that time lid like to know who was the
Coordinator at that time.
Councilman Sikes: Jack Bevel.
Councilman Asting: No.
Councilman Sikes: He was Coordinator until Mr. Dietz got on the
Council .
Councilman Asting: 1974
Mayor Christy: 1974? He was the Coordinator then. Mr. Pat Wilson
came to work for us 6-13-75 and he was discharged 2-30-76. He also
received severance pay for two weeks.
Councilman Sikes: Why was he discharged.
Mayor Christy: I understand he was discharged because he did not
operate the plant properly.
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Councilman Sikes: He was discharged because he reported to
Atlanta to DER that reports were being falsified and turned
in, in error. Mr.Ohrwall' was the head of the sewer depart-
ment at that time.
Mayor Christy: I'm compiling all these papers together. I
haven't had time to review them.
Councilman Asting: Who was the Coordinator at that time?
Mayor Christy: At the time of dismissal? Cal Dietz was Coordinator.
Councilman Asting: It was his area of responsibility.
Councilman Sikes: Again, the Coordinator cannot be expected
to understand the preparation of certain reports.
Councilman Rotundo: I don't think Coordinators are involved
in this.
Mayor Christy: I quite agree with you, let's stay on the subject.
It is the Supervisor who is responsible to the Council and the
Coordinator is to coordinate between the department and the Council
should there be some functioning in that area that is erratical
or not proper. Is that correct Mr. Attorney?
Mr. Woods: The Coordinator is strictly responsible for that
department, to coordinate with the department head and the employees.
I remember the case, we had some falsification of documents, it
went to the Environmental Protection Agency out of which a case
arose which we defended successfully before a Federal Administrative
Judge. A case of first impression and I don't know if Mr. Dietz
knew the reports were being falsified or not.
Mayor Christy: There are a lot of things going on that I didn't
know about and 11m beginning to find out about and I'm bringing
them out right now because if I can I would like to get things
understood and know what's going on. That is why when Mr. Kuyk
approached me, I said I didn't want to hear about it, you put it
in a report and present it to the Council and that is exactly
what he did.
Councilman Sikes: At that time we find out - and this was about
the same time that we had that chlorine leak - but at that time,
Mayor Armstrong and I think on Mr. Ohrwallls recommendation, they
fired the gentlemen, Mr. Wilson. The Merit Ordinance provides
that you have to suspend with pay. He went through the Merit Board
and it came back to the Council and we had a hearing. He stated
that he didn't care whether we fired him or not because he already
had a job with the City of Daytona Beach, which was true. We
voted to discharge him. That is how that came about because of
sending reports, we didnlt even go through the proper channels.
Now, that is a responsibility and that is why we had Class C and
Class B operators. They are supposed to be professional help that
can send in proper reports.
Mayor Christy: I don't want to dwell too deeply into this because
I don't even know myself where it is. 11m still studying the paper
work. I can't even begin to make a decision or have any kind of
a discussion on it because I haven't completely investigated it -
it takes time. Everybody in town says they have an answer to it
right now but I disagree because I cannot find the answer at least
not right now.
Councilman Sikes: We have a contract with Mr. Kuyk. What are the
problems we could have in getting out of this contract without
just cause.
Mr. Woods: Like I was saying, I wanted some specific charges
against Mr. Kuyk that might hold up in a court of law. You are
to give 30 days notice, I do believe, according to the agreement,
and whether or not we are firing with just cause would be up to
a court, a judge or a jury - if he so desired to ask for trial by
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and file a suit against the City.
Mayor Christy: The motion was to terminate the agreement between
the City and Mr. Kuyk with two weeks pay in lieu of two weeks
notice.
Councilman Asting: In the agreement under termination. The
employee, not the employer, may terminate this agreement at any
time upon thirty days notice to the employer and the employer
shall be obligated to pay to the employee his compensation up to
the date of termination. It doesn't say anything about the
employer.
Mr, Woods: I stand corrected, Mr. Asting. The only thing that I
am worried about is the pending matter with Briley, Wild and Mr.
Kuyk's testimony. It may be a little hard to bring him into a
court of law if we need him. That is one consideration I would
like the Council to consider before you do terminate him.
Councilman Ledbetter: If, my memory is right, when the hiring of
Kuyk came up you (Mayor) and Mr. Rotundo voted NO. I believe Mr.
Sikes was absent that night. Mr. Shell and Mr. Dietz voted to
hire him and then at the next meeting ~--
Mayor Christy: Can I correct you on this? The motion was brought
to the floor. There were four Council members present. Mr. Shell
was absent and the motion failed. Then it was brought back to
the floor one time again and at that time Mr. Sikes was absent
and on roll call Mr, Rotundo, Mr. Shell and Mr. Dietz said YES
and I voted NO.
Councilman Asting: All members were present when the resolution
was passed, Resolution No. 808. You signed it NO, Rotundo
signed it NO, Mr. Shell, Mr. Sikes and Mr. Dietz signed it YES.
Councilman Sikes: To prepare the resolution, I think that Louie
voted YES.
Mayor Christy: It was to draw up the resolution. You are absolutely
correct. It was on the motion to draw up the resolution, Does
anyone else on the Council wish to speak on this motion? Then does
anyone in the audience?
Mr. Jim Cameron, Riverside Drive, Edgewater: In answer to Counselor
Woods, I don't see where you should keep someone in your employ just
to use him as a witness. If you're terminating your employment
with this person you can still subpeona him to appear in court. Also
I believe there is a 90 day period in which you would have to act
whether to keep him, if you choose to dismiss this person you would
have to do it within a 90 day period, which is approaching us very
rapidly. If this Council chooses to dismiss this person, I feel that
they should do it today.
Mr. Walter Gross, 909 Lake Ave., Edgewater: When Mr. Kik~ came back
to the City, I asked at that time if we were drawing up a contract
for Mr. Kuyk or for the City of Edgewater. I asked the Counselor
if there would be any repercussions and he said he was the City
Attorney. That's all for that. Here again, this afternoon, the
scare grows. Mr. Sikes said that the City is going to shut down. He
is going to call everybody in Tallahassee if Mr. Kik~ isnlt here.
Mayor Christy: Sir, it is Mr. Kuyk and letls do the respect to the
person the same as you would be respected.
Mr. Gross: 1111 say Mr. Kuyk. I remember back last December there
was a question of a raise here for one employee, the Police Chief.
It was voted down by Mr. Sikes and then two meetings later the
raise included Mr. Kike, Kuyk.
Mayor Christy: Sir, please, 11m going to ask you if you cannot
refrain from using the manls name improperly, 11m going to have to ask
you to sit down. Please use the man's name the way he wishes it
pronounced.
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Mr. Gross: Four times yesterday, on the radio station, they pronounced
it my way. That was in New Smyrna. That is the only reason it is
fixed in my head after listening to it four times.
Mayor Christy: Sir, two wrongs don't make a right.
Mr. Gross: You are right. Mr. Kuyk. The raises for Mr. Kuyk,
Sue Blackwell and the Chief of Police, Mr. Sikes voted Yes. At
that time it was rumored allover the City that Mr. Kuyk was going
to go for a better job and Mr. Kuyk took along with him back pay
even though two weeks later he quit the job and the City didn't
close down, but he got comp pay, Mr. Christy, to the first of
October. Now how does he get ... .to leave the City? I don't under-
stand this. Mr. Kuyk is back with us. Mr. Kuyk is getting up to
$25,000 a year but it is because of the $25,000, now the City is
going to close down if we lose him. It didn't close down in December
and I don't see why with the money we are paying one man we can't
get two good B operators for $14,000 a year and have the City running
in good shape. That's all I have to say, Thank you.
Councilman Sikes: May I answer Mr. Gross?
Mayor Christy: Yes.
Councilman Sikes: First of all Mr. Gross, the motion for the Chief
of Police, the three that you mentioned, those were the salary
increases that had been agreed when the budget was prepared. The
first motion that came up did not include the three. That is why
I voted No. The very next meeting, if you remember, I made the
motion and we put the Chief of Police's salary in as we had discussed
at the previous meeting along with the other two but that is what
the Council had agreed on in the budget. Now, another thing, the
question of Mr. Kuyk's $25,000. Somewhere down the road he will
reach that point. Whenever you make a motion and pay scales are based
on your" year that ends October the first, usually it is sometime
in October or the month of November before you get the Resolutions
passed paying those Department Heads that salary. It has always
been retroactive to the first of October. We advertised for a Class
B operator and we interviewed three or four of them. We tried to
get two to come and at the last minute they didn't. So you cannot
get Class B operators ..
Mr. Gross: I'm glad you brought that up Mr. Sikes. We advertised
for Class B operators and we had about 14, as I remember, answer
the ad. We never heard one word that came into City Hall that we
could question and all of a sudden and I wouldn't say for sure but
it seems to me from what I heard that Mr. Kike's application came
in after the books were closed. He was hired over and above all
these other people that applied for this job for much less money
than they would have paid them. I understand that there was one
engineer that would have taken the job for $20,000 a year. But
somewhere along the line, Mr. Dietz and Mr. Sikes said the City will
not run without Mr. Kuyk and that is happening right now - you are
saying the same thing.
Councilman Sikes: I want to clarify one more thing. We did have
applications, we did extend to the people two offers to come. They
did not come.
Mayor Christy: One did come because I took him to dinner.
Councilman Sikes: We offered the job to one of them but he would
not take it. His wife had a good job and didn't want to leave.
Now, whenever each City Councilman, not only the Councilmen but the
citizens of Edgewater, if they feel that things aren't going on right
they have a right to go to the State Attorney's office, as some of
them have to request an investigation. Now, if I feel that things
aren't done right and we could be in violation of certain Federal
regulations that could penalize us $10,000 a day, you can bet your
boots that 11m going to notify that agency. That is our responsibility
as City Councilmen.
Mayor Christy: There is one thing I want to assure everybody of this
factor. Right now we have not made any appointments but I would like
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to point out that I guess I'm responsible for the whole show
at the moment. It is going to be told to the different people
whatever action will be taken here. I will not be left open
for any libel nor will I put the City to be open for any libel.
All the people that are involved, our water, our sewer department,
everyone involved in it will be notified if there is any action
taken or whatever the action is to be taken. lid like to get
everybody alert to this factor, I will not, repeat, will not
jeopardize my position or myself in any way nor will I jeopardize
this City in any way. Another question Mr. Sikes?
Councilman Sikes: Wel~e got a .. .and we've got a vote and every-
body...... Every City Councilman can be held responsible, per-
sonally, for any action of that City that will cause the problem
for the City resulting in loss of services and so forth. That is
most important.
Mrs. Nichols, 3039 Mango Tree Drive, Edgewater: (the tape was not
clear at this pointhhowever it sounded as if Mrs. Nichols asked
if there was somebody with a B license to take Mr. Kuyk's place).
Councilman Asting: I don't think we need a Class B operator at
the present time.
Mrs. Nichols: Mr. Kuyk isn't here now. All these people that you
are firing can't talk now are they going to have time to come before
the Council in rebuttal or is that it?
Councilman Asting: They can if they wish, I have no objections.
(Mrs. Nichols replied but once again the tape was not clear.)
Mr. Frank Opal, Pine Tree Drive Edgewater: I want to note, first
thing, is there a probationary period involved in this agreement?
Mayor Christy: Which agreement?
Mr. Opal: That is in effect at the present time.
Mayor Christy: Everybody that comes for emoloyment, there is a
90 day period. Is that correct?
Mr. Woods: Yes.
Mayor Christy: The Attorney did say yes, there is a 90 day probation.
Mr. Opal: So we don't have to worry about the contract. Now, let's
go back a little bit. When Donald or David Kuyk, either one, two
names have been used, which is the proper one?
Mayor Christy: It is my understanding it is Don Kuyk.
Mr. Opal: Then why is his application David Kuyk?
Councilman Asting: According to the resolution that hired him, the
name is David Donnan Kuyk.
Mayor Christy: I believe he refers to himself as Don Kuyk.
Mr. Opal: What did his original application state?
Mayor Christy: Sir, I do not have that with me. I didn't come pre-
pared for that.
Mr. Opal: I know, I have a copy. Now we talked about when Mr. Kuyk
left, Donald or David. He took his Christmas bonus at that time too
didn't he?
Mayor Christy: That is correct.
Mr. Opal: Before he left, why didn1t he send his resignation in.
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Mayor Christy: I beg your pardon?
Mr. Opal: Why did he turn his resignation in?
Mayor Christy: Why did he?
Mr. Opal: He was going somewhere el se.
Mayor Christy: That is correct to get more money.
Mr. Opal: ....in December ...because of his Christmas bonus.
Mayor Christy: Just a moment, he would have gotten it no matter
what. He was entitled to the bonus because he was still an
employee at that time.
Mr. Opal: Now here in the past week, we got a little hubbub. Do
you realize Mr. Mayor that we are open for a grand jury investigation
and 11m going to see that we have it.
Mayor Christy: You don't have to it has already been seen to.
Mr. Opal: Oh yes, I've been to the grand jury before, here just
a short time ago and I intend to do that again. 11m going to open
up this whole thing because there is a lot that I want to find out
that I've heard. I~hy did this man wait for all this time now. He's
been here why did he wait until after election?
Mayor Christy: I assume he will have to answer that in a court
room.
Mr. Opal: The Federal government would like to know that too.
Mayor Christy: Yes, sir and so would I.
(The Mayor and Mr. Opal both talked at the same time and the tape is
not clear.)
Mayor Christy: There was someone else who had there hand up.
Are you a resident of the City.
I am a property owner.
Mayor Christy: He is entitled to speak.
Mr. Ben Vasquez, I reside in New Smyrna Beach and I am a property
owner in the City of Edgewater. I have listened to this discussion
taking place today by the Council in regards to employees. .......
(not clear) I find that Mr. Asting's statement is correct -
if the City has a contract with an employee (other people are talking
at this point and Mr. Vasquez's words are not clear) The City
of Edgewater can dismiss an employee at any given time without...
contract or agreement no matter what the City Attorney states. That
is my personal opinion. Now, getting back to what the City can do.
First of all, one has to do nothing but look at the City Charter
for the carrying out of the duties of this City, the Mayor takes the
bull by the horn, if I may quote it simply, takes hold of the City
and carried on forward. He has the power, the only power and the
only man in the City that has the power to replace people, he can
hire and fire, he can then appoint a City Clerk --
Mayor Christy: Just one moment, before you go any further, the Mayor
does not have that authority. The Council has that authority. You
have five people sitting here and it takes all five to make that
decision. Not one man, he is not the almighty, thank God.
Mr. Ben Vasquez: The Mayor is head of the City. He has certain
powers that he can control the City by. I'm sure the Council would
go along with the Mayor's recommendations. So therefore, I don't
see why we are sitting here debating about an employee. I happen
to be a business man, if an employee doesn't do his job I don't
bicker about it I just fire him, it's that simple. If he doesn't
per f 0 rOm he go e s . The sam e way wit h C i t.Y em p 1 0 ve e s, i f the y don't
perform they must leave. They have the prerogative of resigning, quitting,
or being replaced. In fairness to everyone including the citizens of
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Edgewater and the City Council here I feel as though if the people
of this City and including the City of New Smyrna Beach don't take
over the City, in time you will be told what to do by people that
you donlt want to tell you what to do.... ..and so forth. I believe
the people have the right to ask this Council today to replace those
people who they feel are costing them money that the City cannot
afford to pay. It is time that we stood up and be counted and the
citizens take control of their destiny, otherwise, ladies and
gentlemen, you just don1t have a chance. Thank you very much.
Mayor Christy: Thank you very much sir. Is there anyone else
who would like to speak? Roll call on the motion.
Upon roll call the motion CARRIED 3-2. Mayor Christy and Councilman
Sikes voted NO.
Mayor Christy: What is the next move of the Council's pleasure.
Councilman Asting: I make a motion that we temporarily appoint
Mr. James Murphy of Riverside Drive, Edgewater, as Supervisor of
the Water and Wastewater Departments. Mr. Murphy is a graduate
engineer and received his engineering degree from Northeastern
University. As Supervisor, Mr. Murphy will exercise full control
over the activities of the Water and Wastewater personnel during
working hours. Mr. Murphy will hold this appointment at the pleasure
of the Councilor until a satisfactory replacement is available.
Mr. Murphy will work without salary but will be reimbursed for any
expenses incurred in connection with this appointment.
Mayor Christy: I have a motion by Mr. Asting, do I have a second?
Councilman Rotundo: I second the motion.
Mayor Christy: I have a motion to appoint Mr. Murphy. Mrs. Kinsey
will you repeat the motion?
Mrs. Kinsey: Mr. Murphy to be appointed temporary Supervisor,
without salary and to be reimbursed for out of pocket expenses.
Councilman Sikes: The motion should say that we instruct the Attorney
to prepare a resolution.
Mayor Christy: We must hire by resolution. Therefore I would
like the second to withdraw and the withdraw the motion and restate
the motion.
The second and the original motion were withdrawn.
Councilman Asting: The Attorney draw up the resolution and have
it prepared for next Mondayls meeting.
Councilman Rotundo seconded this motion.
Councilman Sikes: We need to check as far as the liability for
injury on the job and if the fact that we are not paying a salary
if he is covered if it becomes necessary we have to find out if he
needs to be on the payroll. We also have social security, hospitalization
insurance. If he is going to be hired for a full time job, I question
if we can have a man do a job and not pay him.
Councilman Asting: I would like to make an addition to the motion
that Mr. Murphy be paid a dollar a year.
Mayor Christy: lid like to get this amendment on here. You made
an amendment to pay him $1.00 per year.
Councilman Sikes: I don't think we voted on the motion.
Mayor Christy: No we didn't but you can make an amendment to the motion.
Mayor Christy: I have an amendment to the motion by Mr. Asting
paying Mr. Murphy $1.00 per year. Seconded by Mr. Rotundo.
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There were no questions on the amendment.
Mayor Christy: Roll call on the amendment.
Upon roll call the amendment CARRIED 3-2. Mayor Christy and
Councilman Sikes (who said he had nothing against Mr. Murphy but
he would have to vote no) voted NO.
Mayor Christy: Mr. Asting's orginal motion was to draw up a
resolution for next Monday night to appoint Mr. Murphy as
Supervisor of the Water and Wastewater Departments.
Councilman Asting: Mr. Murphy will serve at the pleasure of
the Council until a satisfactory replacement is available.
Mayor Christy called for a roll call on the original motion.
Upon roll call the motion CARRIED 3-2. Mayor Christy and Councilman
Sikes voted NO.
Mayor Christy: What is next?
Councilman Astinq: I would like to make a motion for a resolution
to appoint Mr. John Wharton, Riverside Drive, Edgewater as City
Clerk and Administrator at a salary of $10,000 per year. Mr.
Wharton holds a masters degree in Business Administration with
a major in accounting. In his capacity as City Clerk/Administrator
Mr. Wharton will exercise suoervision over all administrative matters.
Mr. Wharton will hold this appointment at the pleasure of the City
Council.
Councilman Ledbetter seconded the motion.
Mrs. Sue Blackwell, Hardin Place, Edgewater: I would like to point
out that the City is obligated to advertise vacancies, according
to Federal law.
Councilman Asting: I amend my resolution to add the word "temporary".
Mayor Christy: I would like to ask the Attorney if what Mrs. Blackwell
said is true?
Mr. Woods: I believe we normally advertise for positions but there
is nothing wrong with the motion.
Councilman Ledbetter seconded the amendment.
There were no questions on the amendment.
Upon roll call the amendment CARRIED 3-2. Mayor Christy and
Councilman Sikes voted NO.
End of Tape 2 A & B.
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(Tape 3 begins with Mr. Opal speaking but it is not clear)
Mayor Christy: Roll call please on the original motion.
Upon roll call the motion CARRIED 3-2. Mayor Christy and Council-
man Sikes voted NO.
Mayor Christy: What else do we have?
Councilman Asting: I would like to make a motion to remove Marie
Nichols from the Planning Board and Mr. William Nichols from the
Zoning Board, I believe there may be a conflict of interest there.
Councilman Ledbetter seconded the motion.
Councilman Rotundo's question was not clear.
Councilman Asting: I believe both of them are working for a
real estate agent.
Councilman Sikes: The fact that they work for any business does
not limit them as far as serving in any position in the City.
Councilman Ledbetter had no questions.
Councilman Sikes: When you have a person appointed to a two or
three year term, it is just not a matter of removing them that
quick. They've been appointed by the Council. Now there is a
legal question for our Attorney. When you appoint a person to
a Board for a two year term, it seems like there would have to
be formal charges brought against that individual before any
Council can remove them from that position.
Mr. Woods: Mr. Sikes, it is only an appointed Board, whereas
they are not employees of the City and they do serve at the will
of the Council. I believe there is a question of a conflict of
interest but the courts have ruled that as long as they file
the disclosure statement required if there isa voting conflict
they must file with the Commission of Ethics. This does not
necessarily preclude them from serving on the Boards because
they are realtors. They serve at the will of the Council.
Mr. Glaser: If the only things about a conflict of interest is
that they work for a realtor then would this not be the same for
a contractor, builder,. plumber, electrician etc. who serves on a
Board? Would there not be a conflict of interest for these people?
Why would it be any different? Could they not vote on things that
effect their livelihood?
Mayor Christy: I'll have to ask the Attorney to answer that.
Mr. Woods: I think live already answered the question because they
are realtors it does not preclude them from servinq on Boards, nor
would it preclude a contractor or any other person-that might have
an interest. The only thing that is' required is that if they feel
they do haye a conflict, not to vote or if they vote they file a
form for the Commission on Ethics which is filed in City Hall.
Mr. Glaser: That is an answer but I don't see how YOU can differentiate
between someone who works for a realtor and have a-conflict of
interest. If there is somethinq else involved then that is somethinq
else again. Just because they ~ork for a realtor it doesn't seem -
like that should be held against them. To my way of thinking, a
builder has got the same chance of voting on something that is going
that will benefit him and that he will make money from.
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Mr. Robert Witzig, 2218 Oueen Palm Drive, Edgewater: I am in
real estate myself and even though there is not a legal conflict
of interest, I would assume that there is a moral conflict of
interest. I know that if I had information that someone else
might not have I would take advantage of it. I guess any normal
person would and I would think this goes for anyone whether they
serve on a Council, whether they serve on any of the Boards.
Whenever there is any moral conflict whether it is legal or not
it is up to them to remove themselves and if not if they are serving
at the will of the Council, then they should be removed
Mr. Vasquez: Are these two people related?
Mayor Christy: Husband and Wife.
Mr. Vasquez: I don't think it would be in the best interest of
this City or any other City in Vo1usia County or in the State of
Florida for husbands and wives to be teamed up where they can be
in a position to vote on a particular project and therefore cast
two votes ....we are all smart enough to know that man and wife...
together and man and wife usually talk together and surely somewhere
along the line there is going to be two votes, lopsided votes.
Therefore, in my opinion, I don't believe it is in the best interest
of this City, as I stated and also in the County for relations,
husband and wife teams to be on the same Board in the same City or
different Boards in the same City. As far as Marie Nichols, I
have met her and think very highly of her but in this case, I feel,
it is in the best interest. If her husband wishes to serve on a
Board it would be better for him to serve on a County Board for
instance rather than a City Board, Having both of them on two
different Boards just seems too lopsided to me.
Mr. Jim Cameron, South Riverside Drive, Edgewater: I know both
Bill Nichols and Marie Nichols. I believe that the City of
Edgewater has already paid a bill in the past of $700 and some odd
dollars to defend Marie Nichols. Knowing Bill and Marie Nichols..
I feel personally if they have an opportunity to benefit them-
selves, they have no morals as far as the City goes. I feel that
it would be a conflict of interest.
Mrs. JoAnne Sikes, 125 Pa1mway, Edgewater: I would like to ask the
occupations of the other members of the Boards. Don't we have
surveyors, don't we have builders? I have no Questions .... for
either one. I am not questioning their qua1iflcations or whether
they should serve or not but I'm asking about the other members of
Boards if you are going to question these two, I think it should be
all the way. I think if you are going to have surveyors, plumbers,
builders, contractors, I think this should be considered.... .honestly
and not as a political......
Mr. James Hatfield, Old County Road, Edgewater: I know both of these
people very well. My son worked for Mr. Nichols at Pantry Pride for
two years, when he was in High School. (the tape is not clear)
Getting people to serve on these Planning Boards and Zoning Boards,
the Mayor and Council know that I have property here in Edgewater
and it could be a conflict of interest if I were to serve on a Board.
You really should give this a lot of thought ... .as the lady said
we have surveyors, builders, etc. It would be hard to find anyone
who wouldn't have conflicts some way, some where, some time along the
line. ....consider all people not just nit pick and pick certain
people out because it is important... In the past we have had
problems... trailer court and.. ...(not clear) We have to be very
careful and.... nit pick.
Councilman Si~es: We must remember that the Council, whether it is
this Councilor Council's back, asked these people to serve. Where
have we changed the thinking that somewhere down the line people that
are involved in real estate, surveying and construction do not make
good members of that type of committee because they are particularly
involved in land and the development of land and the planned growth
of the City?
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Mayor Christy called for a roll call on the motion to remove
Marie and Bill Nichols from the Planning Board and the Zoning
Board.
Upon roll call the motion DID NOT CARRY. The vote was 2-3
Councilman Asting and Councilman Ledbetter voted YES. Councilman
Rotundo, Councilman Sikes and Mayor Christy voted NO.
Councilman Asting made a motion that the meeting be adjourned
Councilman Ledbetter seconded the motion.
The meeting was adjourned.
MINUTES SUBMITTED BY:
Nancy Blazi
Counci
ATTEST:
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qyY C 1 e r k
Approved this 27 day of
November, 1978.
";'-c~~
Mayor
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