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01-17-1980 - Special / ..... ~ (.) f U f3 CITY OF EDGEWATER CITY COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING January 17,1980 CALL TO ORDER Mayor Christy called the meeting to order at 4:00 P.M. in the Edgewater Mayor's Office. ROLL CALL Mayor Robert H. Christy Councilman Louis J. Rotundo Councilman David C. Ledbetter Councilman William B. Glaser Councilman Neil J. Asting City Attorney Judson Woods City Clerk Joseph Herget Police Chief Earl Baugh Present Present Present Present Present Present Present Present SPECIAL MEETING FOR THE PURPOSE OF DISCUSSING FEDERAL SURPLUS PROPERTY THIS MEETING WILL BE TYPED VERBATIM AT THE REOUEST OF COUNCILMAN ASTING .J City Attorney Woods: Gentlemen, I asked the Mayor to call this special meeting because of my interest in this particular problem. It seems it has become mired in politics some way. Course my interest as the City Attorney is only in the City of Edgewater and what is correct for the City, I think you all know that. I don't take sides with any individual Councilman and I think my record will confirm that. You all know me as always trying to give you the best advice I can under the circumstances. live looked at this particular problem and let me preface my remarks I, Mr. Asting said there would be no cover ups, well., there won't be any cover ups. live looked at this problem, live evaluated it, I think that there was an honest mistake made by this Council. You may say, ok, I didn't participate in it, now Mr. Glaser wasn't on the Council. Councilman Ledbetter: No, he's;not in it. City Attorney Woods: Be that as it may, the Mayor sometime ago when other individuals were authorized to go to Starke to procure this surplus equipment. I'm not sure if the Mayor knew what he was signing when he signed this authorization to procure these particular items. Be that as it may, we, the Council, approved the sale of these items at a regular Council meeting. Someone may say, ok, the Mayor may be guilty of some misfeasance or malfeasance you can easily, just as easily state that this Council may have been guilty and include myself of some nonfeasance for failure to investigate how this property should have been disposed of. But be that as it may, it happened, Council authorized the sale on it. Now 11m looking at it as I would look to one of my clients who would come in and ask for advice, what would you do? I would offer to pay them back what you received at that auction as being the fair market value. Fair Market value, by definition in Florida. The fair market value is defined as what a purchaser willing but not obliged to buy would pay the one willing but not obliged to sell. That's what happened at this auction. They had a bunch of purchasers who were willing to sell. The City wasn't obligated to sell, however that established the market place for all the government surplus items. Analogist to gold prices last the fair market value might have been $650, it's $750 this week, so my advice is to offer to pay the government, explain to them what happened. That there was a mistake made by this Council. These items were disposed of, and offer to pay them what we received for those particular items. Now that's my advice and 1111 say no more. Councilman Asting: I'd like to ask a few questions Mr. Woods? Mayor Christy: Well, Mr. Asting, wait a minute, let's get everything straight. The Chair runs th,is .meeting, let.'s ask the chair for permission to speak, not me, your not asking for me, only the chair, so letls go to the... - 1 - 1 I o o Councilman Asting: 11m asking Mr. Woods to answer some questions. Mayor Christy: Alright, alright Mr. Asting. Councilman Asting: Alright now you can ask Mr. Woods if he will. Mayor Christy: No go ahead, no all you have to do is you would like permission to speak to Mr. Woods, and thatls all. This, that's the chair not me... Councilman Asting: Mr. Woods, you read the verbatim copy of the Council minutes of March 19, 1978, did you not? Mr. Woods: Some of it was not discerned. right. Councilman Asting: ~ Right, ok, but apparently it was reproduced verbatim. I saw nothing in there, in reading those Council minutes, I saw nothing in there that authori~ed the sale of Federal property. We talked abou~ Mr. Ledbetter talked a~out getting rid of certain items of property that was in the City Barn n~mely a truck, he mentioned nothing about light fixtures generators.or anything else and on that basis the Council voted to go ahead with an auction to get rid of the property that Mr. Ledbetter spoke about. City Attorney Wood~: Well, Mr. Asting, again, my only reply can be were we negligent in nob inquiring as to what each specific item was to be sold... I _ Councilman Asting: ~ Well, ok City Attorney wOOdJ: I was laboring under the assumption that it was some surplus City properyty, City property, ok? Councilman Asting:; That's what I assumed it to be, surplus City property, not Federal proper~. Ok. Then to go a little further, every item of property that was picked up at Starke was invoiced to the City. The invoice, copies of the invoice, was directed to the attention of Mr. Christy. City Attorney Woods: Right... Councilman Asting: And on the back of those invoices the conditions under which the property was donated to the City, were spelled out. Now, if Mr. Christy doesn't read these documents and correspondence that he gets, you can't blame the Council for that, there's only one person responsible, since I it was directed to their attention, they should re-read it, should read it, should be aware of ,the of the conditions, also, lid like to call your attention here to-the original agreement that Mr. Christy signed. City Attorney Woods: I'm aware of that... Councilman Asting: And it states... Mayor Christy: Chief, would you get some more chairs? Councilman Asting: It states, be it further resolved that the City of Edgewater, Florida -hereby certifies that he has and understands the above. He has read, he certifies that he has read and understands the above and it's signed by Mr. Christy. City Attorney Woods: I agree with you. I agree with you, but 11m saying. Councilman Asting: No. you just don't sign something without reading it. City Attorney Woods: Right, but then again, ok, he may be guilty of some __misfeasance, malfeasance, but again, what are they gonna say? Is this Council guilty, not equally guilty of nonfeasance, for not investigating to find out what items were to be sold? You know it goes back a long way... Councilman Asting: It goes back to 1977 before I was on the Council. City Attorney Woods: We, we, we ok, ok... Mayor Christy: This goes back to 1961 to when the Civil Defense was organized. Councilman Asting: Well, this agreement was signed December 7, 1977, that was before I came on the Council, before Mr. Ledbetter came on the Council, I think Mr. Rotundo might have been there, were you informed of the '? /' o o , Councilman Asting continued: conditions of under which we could get the surplus property Mr. Rotundo? Councilman Rotundo: I have a filing cabinet at home, which I got through, which is City property and we had to sign for this, it's on record in the... Councilman Asting: Well, your signature does not appear on this agreement. Councilman Rotundo: My signature don't have to be on it. Councilman Asting: Well, then you knew that the, you also knew that the proper~y couldn't be sold? Councilman Rotundo: It belongs to the City, nobody... Councilman Asting: No it doesn't belong to the City, that's the point. According to the lagreement it spells it out in here, that it is not City property unless ~he City can use it... ! Counci 1 man Rotundo: You cannot... Councilman Asting: If the City cannot use and place it in use within 1 year, then it has to be returned to the depot at Starke. I Councilman Rotundo: But... . Councilman Astin4: Did you, were you aware of the conditions? I Councilman Rotundo: Still the item in question, that I have or any item that there's a record of it. There a record at City Hal1... . . Councilman Asting: You have a copy of this? Councilman Rotundo: Yes. Councilman Asting: The one, not the one I just had you give... The orig... Way back in 77... Councilman Rotundo: I have it in my records. Councilman Asting: of this also. I You have a copy of this? Then you should have been awar Councilman Rotundo: Right. Councilman Asting: But there was at least, there's at least 3 members on tt Council that were not aware of this, these of these conditions and I never I received any in the material that I was given, I never received a copy of this, so I had no way of knowing and neither did Mr. Ledbetter cause I'm sut you didn't get a copy of this, but did you get a copy of this Mr. Glaser? Councilman Glaser: No. Councilman Asting: .So there's at least 3 members of the Council here that were was not aware of the conditions under which the property was donated to the City. Now, furthermore I'd also like to point out Mr. Woods, that first we are United States citizens, are we not and we, then we reside in the City of Edgewater. City Attorney Woods: I assume everyone is... Councilman Asting: If you..If you went abr. went abroad and you were picked up by foreign officials, your not a resident of the City of Edgewater, or you may be, but first, your a United States citizen, and I think it's the duty of every citizen to more or less protect the Federal interests. City Attorney Woods: I agree \'iith you... Councilman Asting: You Mr. Glaser... City Attorney Woods: (not audible) Councilman Asting: You represent,. you're a representative of NASA, which is a Federal Organization, a Federal agency. .... o o Councilman Glaser: Yes, sir. Councilman Asting: And 11m sure your aware of the close accountability that has to be paid, has to be given to Federal property. You can't abuse it, if you do you pay for i.t, is that correct? So you should be aware of this too in fact some of the remarks you made the other night disturbed me a little bit, because here you are representing a Federal agency and you appeared willing to more or less slide over the this mis-handling of the' Federal property by the Mayor. Councilman Glaser: What do you want Mr. Asting? Do you want the man to admit that he, that he did it intentionally, that he screwed up, what the hell do yo u wan t, 0 k . Councilman Asting: Ok, I III tell you what I want. . . Councilman Glaser: Let him :stand or. . . Councilman Asting: I III tell you what I want. . . Councilman Glaser: What the he 11 , letls get it over wi th. . . Councilman Asting: I 1m saying right now. . . Councilman Glaser: Alright... Councilman Asting: I 1m saying right now. . . Councilman Glaser: You donlt want to send the damn letter up there... Ok, I withdraw my damn motion, we wonlt send the damn letter. You say what you want to do and weill do it. Councilman Asting: 11m saying right now, Mr. Glaser, that the Mayor should have been aware of these conditions, he signed the paper and he... Councilman Glaser: Are you aware everything that goes on in this City. Councilman Asting: I understand it... Councilman Glaser: Are you aware of everything... Councilman Asting: Anything that comes to my attention.yes. Councilman Glaser: Anything that comes to your attention. Why don't you go in the vault... Councilman Asting: Councilman Glaser: damn years and. . . Councilman Asting: Councilman Glaser: Thatls right... and read everything in there that's happened for 100 live done very much... and become responsible. Councilman Asting: I try very much to do that Mr. Glaser. Councilman Glaser: That's great. Councilman Asting: Yea. Mayor Christy: Alright gentlemen, we have qathered here because the attorney had called this to give us advice... Councilman Asting: Well, 1111 tell you, your attitude concerning this di sturbes me... Mayor Christy: Mr. Asting, Mr. Asting... Councilmam Glaser: I could give a damn less, Mr. Asting... Mayor Christy: Ok, gentlemen... Councilman Asting: Ok, well, let's see how much you give a damn... - 4 - o o Mayor Christy: Gentlemen, gentlemen, please. The attorney had asked for this to be called and he has to hold up on that letter saying to Starke. It was voted 3 to 2 to send the letter. Now the attorney has asked us to hold up on it till he cou.ld get with us and tell us what his opinion was on this, so he has done so, now we will either act upon his opinion or go back to the original motion, one of the two. Councilman Asting: I don't think you have the authority to dictate as to what.. . Mayor Christy: I am not sir, I am still Chairman of this Committee until... Councilman Asting: Your presiding over this meeting. Mayor Christy: meeting... Councilman Asting: But you have no right to dictate to the Council what it will do... Yes sir, that's right, I'm still the Chairman of this Mayor Christy: Ilm not dictating sir, we have one or two choices to go on. The man at Starke told me yesterday and wants an answer and we'll go either with the recommendation... v Councilman Asting: Welve already made a motion... Mayor Christy: of our attorney or on our motion. / Councilman Asting: We've already made a motion and Council voted 3 to 2 to send the letter to Starke including the enclosures. Mayor Christy: Alright the attorney has given advice today... Councilman Asting: Has the letter gone off Mr. Herget? Mayor Christy: No sir, itls been held off until we could have this meeting. Councilman Ledbetter: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Christy: Yes Mr. Ledbetter. Councilman Ledbetter: I hadnlt said too much about this even at the meeting Monday night or the one prior to that. Now if I've committed a wrong doing against the people of Edgewater, Ilm willing to reach in my hip pocket and pay for it, whatever means it takes to pay for it. But due to the fact that I was mis-informed on this GSA equipment in 1 solid year that lIve been here I have never known that existed there. All I have been told when they go to Starke for this equipment, welre going over to buy, do you need so and so in the Street Dept? Now of all this time I have been led to believe that we was buying this stuff. So, I have been mis-informed on it and I donlt care what anybody says, it should have been available to Mr. Asting and myself and Mr. Glaser as the new member of it now and I had no knowledge that there was gonna be any of this after I learned after the stuff thatscome out, that GSA equipment would be sold over there. So, therefore, I 'am not a gonna admit that I sat over there in that Community Hall and committed a illegal act because I didn't know the damn difference and hadn't been informed. Councilman Asting: Well... Councilman Ledbetter: And I ainlt gonna change my vote for Monday night, Illl still vote no. Mayor Christy: Well, were you at the auction? Councilman Ledbetter: Yea I was at the auction. Mayor Christy: Did you see the equipment that was being auctioned off? Councilman Ledbetter: I seen the equipment, I didnlt have any knowledge then that it was GSA ,equipment. - 5 - o ~ o Mayor Christy: Well, we had talked, you asked me about that equipment, and I said no, we got clearance from about the generators and I said no, we had clearance from Starke to sell those generators. Councilman Asting: Where is this clearance, live never seen any copy of a clearance that authorizes to sell it. Mayor Christy: It's right, it was there in that group of papers, but the... Councilman Asting: Does anyone have it? Mayor Christy: the serial number... Councilman Asting: Does anyone have it? Mayor Christy: This has been explained to you before Mr. Asting. Councilman Asting: No, well where is it, I want to see it. Mayor Christy: Well, 11m not going any further on it. You have your paper work, if you donlt read it... Councilman Asting: Let me, does any other Council member have a copy of the authorization by Starke to sell this property? I don't either. Mayor Christy: Well, if you donlt see it I can't explain it to you... Councilman Asting: Well, is a Mayor Christy: The attorney... Councilman Asting: The only person other, at the auction that knew that this property was not to be sold and went ahead and sold it was you Mayor Christy. And I charge you with illegally disposing of Federal property. Mayor Christy: (not audible) if you want to do that you go ahead and do it, but right now we have a problem to handle. The attorney asked to have this meeting so as .to give his opinion on this. If the Council will not take the attorneyls opinion letls hear so, but if the Council wants... Councilman Asting: Well, 11m not... Mayor Christy: to take his opinion then letls hear so. Councilman Asting: Let's not, letls not, welre not ready to make any kind of decision on this yet. lid like to ask the attorney if he has gone over all these papers. City Attorney Woods: live been over everything Mr. Asting. The only thing that I can deduce from the entire situation is that a mistake was made on the sale of the property, and you, Louie, Dave and myself thought it was just some surplus property that we could go ahead and get rid of... Councilman Asting: Nothing... City Attorney Woods: I assume that he felt so too. Mayor Christy: (not audible) Councilman Asting: Nothing in the, I canlt buy that last part after... Mayor Chrrlsty: Mr. Asting, welre not asking you to buy anything, we... Councilman Asting: ~ow listen Mr... Christy... Mayor Christy: Welre just... If you can make a statement, I can make a statement. Councilman Asting: 11m speaking, 11m speaking to the attorney Mr. Christy... Mayor Christy: Your still putting personalities too... Councilman Asting: No 11m not putting personalities in it. - 6 - o o ~ C i t Y At tor Fl e y Woo d s : T h a tis the 0 n 1 y t h i n 9 t hat I can de d u c e fro m the f uta 1 i t Y of the situation. Councilman Asting: Well, then... City Attorney Woods: A mistake was made, yes we made a mistake... Councilman Asting: Alright now should the City pay for this mistake? City Attorney Woods: It was an innocent mistake... Councilman Asting: Should the City~.. City Attorney Woods: That's what 11m saying, we shouldn't pay for the mistake any more than what we received for the property. Offer to pay em that money. Councilman Asting: Now do you, what do you recommend as a method for handling this matter? City Attorney Woods: I think that a letter, could be drafted explaining what happened at the Council meeting. We acted under an apparent mistake that we had the authority to go ahead and dispose of the property and in fact it was disposed of... Councilman Asting: Well, I donlt, I can't go along with the we. City Attorney Woods: Well the Council. The Council approved it regardless. Co u n c i 1 man A s tin g : l~ e did nit, wed i d n' tap pro v e . . . City Attorney Woods: You approved it, you voted for it, you may not have known the facts as they existed, but you voted for it. Councilman Astina: We didn~t vote to dispose of Federal Property though, in the minutes of that meeting. City Attorney Woods: Thatls what 11m saying, it was a mistake. Councilman Asting: You mean it should have been in there that we were gonna dispose of Federal property? City Attorney Woods: Right, but it wasnlt there. Councilman Asting: And nob... it was never mentioned at Council. City Attorney Woods: Mr. Ledbetter first brought it up you know we were gonna dispose of certain property then there was another... Councilman Asting: Well, he wanted to get rid of the truck. Ci ty Attorney Woods: Yea... Councilman Ledbetter: There was a truck an old Dodge truck... Councilman Asting: Then that was... Councilman Ledbetter: and an old cement mixer without a motor on it... Councilman Asting: (Not audible) Mr. Rotundo... Councilman Ledbetter: and several other miscellaneous pieces of.equipment. City Attorney Woods: Regardless of where we want to lie the fault, I could take equal blame too, because I didn't know about all this authorization either. But I labored under the same impression that>we could dispose of this property because it was surplus City property, we no longer needed it. I advised the Council to in accordance with our ordinance, to advertise it for sale. Co u n c i 1 man As t i' n g : S h 0 u 1 d we, but you did nit aut h 0 r i z e Fed era 1 pro per t y to be sold. City Attorney Woods: No, I... _ 7 _ o o Councilman Asting: And neither did any other Council member. City Attorney Woods: I had no idea that it was Federal property. I really didn't. Councilman Asting: And none of us was aware of a complete list of the items that was to be sold. City Attorney Woods: True... Councilman Asting: Nobody has, have you given thought to the possibility of having an outside person... City Attorney Woods: This is what I had originally proposed to Council. Councilman Asting: Investigate these and... City Attorney Woods: Unbiased person with some legal background... Councilman Asting: With legal background and investigate it and report to the Council. City Attorney Woods: Right. Councilman Asting: I like that idea. City Attorney Woods: as to what we should do. Mayor Christy: lid rather have the GSA investigate it... Councilman Asting: They are investigating it, believe me. And not only the state GSA but the Federal GSA. Mayor Christy: Good... City Attorney Woods: I don't want to see the City suffer because... Councilman Asting: I don't think the City should suffer either. City Attorney Woods: (not audible) this fair market value seems to esta- blish that price at that time, that could go on adinfinitum you know. He could sell it for, I think he had an offer for of $5,000. Mayor Christy: Well, we1re gonna have... Councilman Asting: Well... Mayor Christy: to get some kind of answer to give to Starke. They want to know our intentions of doing. City Attorney Woods: Well, why doesn't the Council hiring, getting somebody to make an independent investigation and be bound by the recommendation. Councilman Asting: That would mean then that the motion that we passed at the last Council meeting would have to be... Mayor Christy: Rescinded... Councilman Asting: Rescinded. City Attorney Woods: I don't believe in committing ourselves at this point. Councilman Rotundo: How much of a time limit do we have? City Attorney Woods: I don't know... Councilman Asting: We probably could get an extention if we if we gonna have an outside source investigate it. City Attorney Woods: With any immediacy on this,!... Mayor Christy: I think the attorney should... City Attorney Woods: deal ing with the government and I you know... - 8 - o o Councilman Rotundo: Say for instance... Say for instance we done this, what more could an outsider find out then what's already been done. City Attorney Woods: I'm talking about somebody that is that doesn't really know anything about the situation, I'm not talking about anybody that's personally acquainted with any member of this Council. Councilman Rotundo: What I'm saying, what more could he find out? That's what I'm saying. City Attorney Woods: Well, I think... Councilman Asting: Well, he could, I think he could determine who's at fault, whether its the City of an individual. City Attorney Woods: Yea. Mayor Christy: Well, no I think a court is gonna have to do that, there is no one outside person that's gonna settle this. City Attorney Woods: I don't think this is gonna reach the court situation. Mayor Christy: Court is the only one that can make that kind of a decision. Councilman Asting: It could go to court too, I wouldn't be opposed at all to it. Mayor Christy: It doesn't bother me at all for it to go to court. Councilman Asting: Well, if you the money to pay for it, that's ok. Mayor Christy: Well, that is beside the point... City Attorney Woods: You know... Councilman Rotundo: What the question is here is the City of Edgewater. Mayor Christy: Yes... Councilman Asting: Yes absolutely, that's right. City Attorney Woods: Just like I told Mr. Asting, he called me yesterday. Let's do what's best for the City. , , Councilman Asting: That's what I agree to. That's why I'm, I'm... Mayor Christy: We can draw this all on out. Councilman Asting: We all know the City should not have to pay... Mayor Christy: Keep on... Councilman Asting: for somebody's mistake. Mayor Christy: I was for getting this straightened out and get it corrected. Starke is willing to go along, of course the attorney has read off the fair market value, what .his opinion is from the law books so that's... Coucnilman Ledbetter: Well, I must go along with the thing and anything that sells at a Public sale, what somebody else turns around and sells, well that's not my concern. Mayor Christy: And as the attorney stipulated... Councilman Asting: You know, it really is to the point, Dave. that it does place you could sell a diamond, a genuine diamond ring for 50~ you know, that'~ not the fair market value of the ring. Councilman Ledbetter: According to how bad you need that drink of wine. Councilman Asting: Yea... Councilman Ledbetter: And so... Councilman Asting: And so... o _ o o Several people talking at one time (not audible). Councilman Asting: The sale would not, the price of the, the money received from the sale would not place would not be the fair market value it would have to be a whatever 'it was, the true worth it was. The sale does not point out the... Councilman Rotundo: Yea but who establishes true worth? Councilman Asting: Well, it could only be one person there that to bid against it. Councilman Rotundo: That's the United States Government. Councilman Asting: That1s right. Councilman Ledbetter: You go to call a auction, you can buy 3 hundred dollar car and tomorrow you can take a buffer and buff it out a little bit and you can sell the same car for $1,000. Mayor Christy: Or you can even the same car and turn around and sell... Councilman Asting: But, in this particular case not a damn thing was done to this generator that was sold. Mayor Chr1 sty: That" s irreverent. Nothi ng. . . Councilman Asting: No, it isn1t irreverent... Mayor Christy: Yes it is because... 'Councilman-As~ing: No it is not.. Mayor Christy: as the attorney has pointed out... Councilman Asting: It is not irreverent. Mayor Christy: Mr. Asting won't you think. If a... Councilman Asting: Christy, you're the one that's not thinking. You're the one that didn't think when this sale was conducted. You conducted the auction and apparently you didn't think because if you had thought, you would have remembered the conditions under which the property was given to the City. Mayor Christy: You're so anxious to talk you wouldn1t even allow me to finish my statement. Councilman Rotundo: I think the intent of the sale was to procure money for the City. Mayor Christy: That's right, and the City got the money. Councilman Rotundo: and that1s where the money went no one put any money in thei r pocket. Councilman Asting: No of course not, but property was sold Lou, that shouldn't have been sold it was not supposed to be sold. Councilman Rotundo: But it was sold. Mayor Christy: It was sold with the understanding that we had the clearance to sell it. Councilman Rotundo: I'm gonna relate that... Councilman Asting: I want to see a copy of that... Mayor Christy: Look in your file... Councilman Asting: I looked in my file and there1s not a Councilman here thatl has a copy of it. I'm sure that if I had a copy they would have had it. That may not be true. - 1 0 - o 0 Councilman Asting: It wasn't given to me. And no other Councilman other- wise they would have spoken up. Councilman Rotundo: I made a second to that motion, the other night and I want the opinion of the Attorney to advise us on what to do. Mayor Christy: Right. Councilman Rotundo: Right now. City Attorney Woods: Lou, I gave you ,that advice earlier. Councilman Rotundo: Alright, Ok. Mayor Christy: Are you gonna say anything else? Councilman Asting: Well, would anyone, other members of the Council think about or what do they think about getting an outside source to review this, and make the recommendation to us. Anyone got any thoughts on that? Councilman Glaser: We got to do it. Councilman Rotundo: It's gonna cost us money to do that too. Mayor Christy: That's right. The other way you let the government do it they are gonna,pay for it. If they're not satisfied with it they are gonna do it so you're gonna be chewing your cud twice. Councilman Rotundo~ You couldn't get anybody just to come here and do it for nothing, you'd have to pay em so much an hour. Councilman Asting: Seems to me we're actually paying double for this equipment, we already, we paid a service charge to get it from Starke and now they"re gonna charge us because we didn't return it, they're gonna charge us at least the service charge and probably more depending on the fair market value. In other words we've got a generator for $37, we paid $37 dollars we sell the generator for $50 we're gonna have to pay back $50 which is the total of $87 we're paying for the generator. So that's another aspect of it. Mayor Christy: Would you mind stating your recommendation again Mr. Attorney? City Attorney Woods: My recommendation was that you explain to them Council acted and approved the sale of it under the mistaken belief that it could be sold. Councilman Asting: I can't go along with that Mr. Woods because I didn't agree to the auctioning off or the selling of Federal property. I did not agree to it. I was under the impression as every body else as... Councilman Rotundo: How much.... Councilman Asting: The minutes reflect this, that it was... City Attorney Woods: That's what I'm saying though Mr. Asting... Mayor Christy: All together I think we got a... City Attorney Woods: the belief that it could be sold. Councilmen, now that is a true and correct statement, you acted under a mistaken belief that you could dispose of this property. All the facts weren't before you. Councilman Asting: Of surplus City property. That's what I was under the impression on that thing. The minutes will reflect this and I think the other members of the Council do the same, I don't know about Mr. Rotundo if he had a copy of the agreements, the conditions, I cannot answer for him cause I know that as far as I'm concerned and I think Mr. Ledbetter the same way, we knew nothing of the conditions under which the property was donated to the City and we probably should have been informed. City Attorney Woods: (not audible) ~ - 11 - o o Councilman Rotundo: How can property be donated to the City when we paid for it. Councilman Asting: Well, we, we didn't pay for the value of the property~ What we paid for was the handling charge, really. The property was, the items were given free. Mayor Christy: How much was that? Councilman Asting: Oh, we paid lets see... Seve~al people talking at one time, tape (not audible) Tape change to side B. l-b Tape still not audible, several people still talking. Mayor Christy: How much did you say Joe. City Clerk Herget: $1,000 for the generator, it's either $400 or $450, it's what was the surplus government property. Mayor Christy: $450? Councilman Ledbetter: Because I know the street department equipment there that was sold, the truck brought" $400 and the cemen~ mixer $100... City Clerk Herget: I figured that... Councilman Ledbetter: And the other 2 pieces of... City Clerk Herget: Ok, that figure came from going down all those items that were on there and what they were sold for and what Starke wants reimbursed for and it's either if you 'go by fair market value that the attorney's talking about it's gonna come out $400 on for... I can't remember cause I had to add $35 in for those generators tops on those, it's gonna be between $400 and $500 right there $500 max, 11m not sure which. I could go back and tally it up pretty quick, but it's gonna be right there between, not over $500. Councilman Asting: Another thing concerning this matter and I'm sure that you've caught the same thing, Mr. Woods, is the mis-statements that were made in the correspondence sent to Starke. Correspondence and verbal replys made to the investigator when he came down here. The statements were false. Mayor Christy: Mr. Asting, the statements were not false. The City Clerk heard me tell and ask the people the questions and those were the replys... Councilman Asting: For example, you see, the state here that the steam generators were destroyed at the City dump. Mayor Christy: That was exactly what we thought it was. Councilman Asting: We have no City dump and they were not destroyed, you sold them at .the, for $35 at the auction. Mayor Christy: Because I was told they were buried over there in that trash. Is that right or wrong... Councilman Asting: Well, how come you, how come you sold em then, you must have known what you were selling. Mayor Christy: Mr. Asting, I do not memorize that stuff, I don't get paid for that. Councilman Asting: Well, by God you conducted the auction. Mayor Christy: You get paid as much as I do, you should have known what was written in there. Councilman Asting: No, I didn't know... Mayor Christy: If you didn't know, you should have asked. - 12 - Q u , Councilman Asting: No, I didn't. Mayor Christy: Alright. That's beside the point. Let's get back to our original... Councilman Asting: I had very little interest in the auction myself. Mayor Christy: I know. Background voice (Not audible). Mayor Christy: No sir, we cannot, we are still with the Council here on finding out whatls going on. Mr. Opal: Well, I want the floor before. Mayor Christy: Mr. Opal will you please sit down. Mr. Opal: I'd"like to have the floor. Mayor Christy: 11m gonna ask you once more and 11m gonna ask the Chief to escort you out. Mr. Opal: That's right, 11m a taxpayer. Mayor Christy: Will you please sit down and 1111 recognize you when we get to the... Mr. Opal: I may even bring suit against you. Mayor Christy: Good, go right ahead Mr. Opal. City Attorney Woods: Let me make one observation. I don't there is any immediacy on this... Mr. Opal: (not audible) railroading this. Mayor Christy: Mr. Opal one more remark out of you and you III be, Chief escort him out, that's all live had enough of it. Mr. Opal: (not audible). Mayor Christy: Well, don't make any more remarks like you are. We're having a Council meeting and youl"~e disrupting it. Another remark out of you and youlll be escorted out sir. Now, Mr. Attorney. City Attorney Woods: If the Council wants to think about it between now and Monday night there is no immediate, we don't have to act right this minute. Mayor Chri sty: Well, we wi 11 have to about the 1 etter because we agreed... City Attorney Woods: I don't think so, you don't have to be that quick with them, make an intelligent decision. Don't make one under pressure. Mayor Christy: I agree with you. City Attorney Woods: Ok, think about it. Councilman Asting: lid like to add one thing. Mayor Christy: Mr. Asting. City Attorney Woods: I don't do things quickly. '1. Councilman Asting: If I go out here and I'm picked up for speeding, 11m a Councilman and .I'm picked up for speeding, I get a ticket, is the Council gonna pay the fine? City Attorney Woods: No sir. Mayor Christy: You're talking about a different story too. Councilman Asting: Well, it's, not necessarily it's a basic analogy. - 13 - . , o o . ~ Mayor Christy:Well, let's stick to our facts not... Councilman Asting: Well, welre sticking to facts this is the, it has a parallel. Mayor Chri sty: There" s no persons... Councilman Asting: Oh, yes there is. Councilman Rotundo: If that's the case... Councilman Asting: Well... Councilman Rotundo: I make a motion to adjourn this meeting. Mayor Christy: Alright, I have a motion to adjourn. Councilman Ledbetter: Second that. Mayor Christy: I have a second. So be it. Councilman Asting: And uh... Mayor Christy: Meeting adjourned. Councilman Asting: lid like to get a copy of the agreement that l' authorized the sale of the property. I donlt have a copy of it. Mr. Opal: (Not audible) ATTEST: Co,un~i'lJ) Cou cilman W~.~~ Councilm,,!!-. ~ )~ br Councilman ~1~ Approved this II January, 1980. .f3t.-~~ u \', day of ~ ~/~,/, .'~.... ",' - ~ - - Mayor - 14 - ~ ~ 'Qf?f ~ ~