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05-21-2007 - Regular CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER REGULAR MEETING MAY 21, 2007 7:00 P.M. COMMUNITY CENTER MINUTES CALL TO ORDER 1. Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the Community Center. ROLL CALL Mayor Michael Thomas Present Councilwoman Debra Rogers Present Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Present Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Present Councilwoman Judith Lichter Present City Manager Jon Williams Present City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Excused Deputy City Clerk Lisa Bloomer Present City Attorney Michael Ciocchetti Present INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to the Flag. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES There were no minutes to be approved at this time. 3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON ATIONS There were no Presentations at this time. 4. CITIZEN COMMENTS The following citizens spoke: Dominic Capria , 606 Topside Circle, commented on City Charter Section 3.11(b) Procedures on Page 8 which gives the City Council to make rules governing the City Council. At the April meeting they had a little bit of a dispute Page 1 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 where the Mayor tried to include the response of questions asked and that response for the three minutes from whoever was making a response. He disagreed with this. He would like the City Council to revisit the Charter and give their opinion. Mr. Capria then commented on a member of the Charter Review Committee being invited to speak on the District 4 being able to run for City Council again. He spoke to three of the Councilmembers who all told him they were not advised that speaker was invited to attend. The speaker spoke for more than three minutes, which he had no problem with. He also spoke to the speaker who told him he was not invited. That he requested to attend. There is a big difference there. His problem is they accuse people of lying and that bothers him. He asked who really is lying? Dave Ross , 2803 Needle Palm Drive, stated he was quoted recently in the News Journal having made a statement at the P & Z meeting. He clarified what he meant to say. He meant to say that the City Codes as they pertain to professional office rezonings on SR 442 are inadequate and is going to continue to cause the entire corridor to be zoned as the Planning & Zoning Board sees fit over the years because there will be numerous variance requests because the Codes do not accommodate professional office businesses on those residential lots. The City needs to look at that and correct it. He feels it is totally inappropriate for what basically should be zoning ordinances to be written at variance hearings by the Planning & Zoning Board. There are a number of issues that can be addressed such as parking, ingress/egress, distance of driveways from SR 442, setbacks and those types of things that every house down there that goes professional office is going to have to request variances around the Code as it is written. The City needs to address it and correct it so they don’t continue to run variances through the Planning & Zoning Board. Councilwoman Rhodes agreed. Terry Packer , 1914 Sabal Palm Drive, informed Mayor Thomas her questions were for him and informed him she was going to ask them all at one time and he could answer them after. Ms. Packer stated her understanding is at the last Council meeting there were some discrepancies and there has been continued discrepancies as far as Miami Tract Hunt Club. She looked at some papers that were given to her and have Page 2 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 discovered there are some discrepancies that she sees with not only the numbers. She asked Mayor Thomas what his lease agreement is with Miami Corp. She then asked where exactly his main base or main pavilion is in conjunction with the 6,000 acres that were just purchased and why after all these years do they now need water? Ms. Packer stated final question, non-profit organization. Why on his information to the City of Edgewater did he put Miami Tract Hunt Club down as second income? Mayor Thomas asked her what the first question was. Ms. Packer informed him how much his lease agreement is with Miami Corp. Mayor Thomas informed her it is a closed agreement. Ms. Packer stated what it says in the paper is they pay $1,400 a year per hunter. Mayor Thomas informed her it has varied. It started out at $1,100 and has gone up $50 per year per hunter. Ms. Packer stated he says he owns and paid for his personal vehicles. She asked Mayor Thomas if he was subsidized at all by Miami Tract. She asked why he would claim it as a second income? Mayor Thomas stated they pay him a salary. Ms. Packer asked if that is within the rules of a non- profit organization? Mayor Thomas informed her it was. Ms. Packer informed him she would check that. Ms. Packer then asked why after so many years they need water rights. Mayor Thomas stated they started the organization in 2001. This was about the time that the City of Titusville came up about 8 miles on the Miami Corporation and drilled a well 100 feet from the Volusia County line, which is in the aquifer that we are using. They said they had the right to go on someone else’s property to do that. Miami Corp. thinks they have the mineral rights. They wanted to incorporate their own water rights, which they did. They got approved for their own water rights. 261 hunters use the water rights. He asked who they want to use the water in our aquifer. Do you want the City of Titusville using the water in our aquifer or do you want 261 hunters. He feels it is beneficial for the City for 261 hunters. He got a bill last month for three months and they used 10 gallons. They paid $.01. How many gallons of water do you think the City of Titusville is going to use? Page 3 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 Ms. Packer stated she didn’t say it wasn’t beneficial to the City of Edgewater but she questioned if it is a conflict that Mayor Thomas is dealing with them as the Miami Tract Hunt Club verses the City of Edgewater. Mayor Thomas didn’t think so. Ms. Packer felt it was something the Council should look into. City Attorney Ciocchetti stated he would need more information rather than if it is a straightforward conflict. At the outset it doesn’t seem to be. He didn’t see a reason for it. But he would need more specific factual assertions as to why it would be a conflict. Ms. Packer stated it is her understanding that Miami Tract has only a lease agreement with Miami Corporation. Mayor Thomas stated all the Miami Tract Hunt Club does is lease the hunting rights on that property. She asked Mayor Thomas if that was his standing with Miami Corporation. Mayor Thomas informed her that was right. Ms. Packer stated but now Mayor Thomas is telling her he is getting water for the City of Edgewater. That’s as the Mayor. Mayor Thomas asked Ms. Packer if she felt it was beneficial for 261 people to be using that water system or for the City of Titusville to be using that water. Ms. Packer stated that isn’t stopping Miami Corporation from selling their water, their water rights. How is that benefiting the City? Mayor Thomas stated he didn’t have anything to do with that. That was approved by the State. Ms. Packer asked Mayor Thomas if he was putting wells on the property. Mayor Thomas informed her he wasn’t. There are three original wells that the Miami Tract is using for the water system. City Attorney Ciocchetti stated it is his understanding that this parcel of land is not in the City of Edgewater. He was having a hard time understanding where the conflict would arise. Ms. Packer stated she didn’t make it a conflict in the beginning. He is saying that he did this or this is much better for the City and she is trying to figure out why it would be better for the City of Edgewater. Miami Corporation sold 6,000 acre and that was in the paper. She is assuming that is fact. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they are all getting water from the same aquifer. Ms. Packer understood that. Councilwoman Rhodes Page 4 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 stated they aren’t in the City; they are in the County so they are getting water from the aquifer as opposed to Titusville getting water from the aquifer. Councilwoman Lichter felt it might not be clear to the audience who might not have been here the previous week. This is a personal matter between Mayor Thomas and Ms. Packer. Ms. Packer stated it is absolutely not a personal matter. She wasn’t here last time. She didn’t have anything to do with the discussion. Councilwoman Lichter stated it doesn’t pertain to the City Council per say. She questioned not being able to abstain from a vote. City Attorney Ciocchetti informed her there are statutory provisions where you can abstain. Councilwoman Lichter commented on other incidents where people declared a conflict, explained it and then voted. She asked if that is so or if this is something they better look into. City Attorney Ciocchetti stated it is always hard to render a general legal opinion without specific facts. Without specific facts, he avoids issuing a general rule because he doesn’t want it to be misconstrued or misapplied. If there is an assertion of conflict of interest he needs specific factual allegations so he can say whether or not there is a conflict. With regard to abstaining from voting, it is within the Florida Statutes. Generally it is with certain financial parameters. There are circumstances where you can disclose your financial interests and vote or there are provisions where you have to abstain from voting. They will deal with those on a case-by-case basis. Ms. Packer stated the only conflict she has is the discrepancy between the financial statement to the City of Edgewater where Mayor Thomas is claiming Miami Tract is his second income and the statement he gave to the Florida Department of Agriculture stating he made no money from Miami Tract. She asked Mayor Thomas which one was true. She asked Mayor Thomas if he wanted her to read his statement to him. Mayor Thomas informed her yes. Mayor Thomas informed Ms. Packer she had run out of time. Ms. Packer stated she is asking the Council now with her time limit. She informed them she would give them the Page 5 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 papers and she would appreciate it if the Council could check into it. She didn’t believe the Mayor had the right to sit up there and call someone a liar when he isn’t completely honest. Carol Ann Stoughton , 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated what the public has to understand is it is the Miami Corporation that will affect us in the future when they want to build 50,000 houses out there. Do you think we are going to get that water over here? We are not. A developer doesn’t care about us over here. That is really what she thinks Mrs. Packer is trying to point out. There are things behind the scenes that aren’t told but with the aid of a computer you can find out an awful lot. She hears from the men that work for the town that pick up the garbage that their jobs are in jeopardy. They don’t even make $20,000 yet we have men at the top making $72,000 to $95,000 to $105,000 plus perks. She thinks they ought to have a group getting all the poor little people that keep our town clean because it looks like their jobs are now in jeopardy because of poor management of funds with the last City Manager over the years. We have a member on Council that is in foreclosure and she can’t meet her bills. She thinks she just cleared it up however there are a lot of people in town that don’t make the money yet the big guy on the top, are they going to start taking jobs away from people that don’t live in town or are they going to start with the little guy at the bottom of the pile who keeps the town clean. Ms. Stoughton stated it took her years to find out the City’s debt, which is now down from $48 million to $43 million and now we are going to sell land in ParkTowne fiasco for less than the going price. We are going to sell it for a million less than what we can get for it. That doesn’t take much brains to do that. It is a damn shame they got into that can of worms along with nobody ever told them how much they spent on water meters. She has heard it is up to $15 million. She thinks that is a sin. There has been so much spending. We bought 23 new vehicles and we have 201 employees in this town and at least 27 of them are making over $50,000. She isn’t knocking a lot of people like Mrs. Wadsworth and many other people. They work long and hard in this town. She feels they need to start downsizing from the top and give the little guy the raise that you guys shouldn’t be getting. Page 6 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 Pat Card , 3019 Willow Oak Drive, informed the Mayor that people accuse him of things that are absolutely beyond comprehension to him. He knows he did not support him but he had a great deal of respect for the fact that he was honest and straightforward about his work with the Miami Tract Hunt Club. He remembered seeing Mayor Thomas when he was getting ready to take juice to the boys on Saturday. He isn’t a member of the club and doesn’t have a whole lot of feeling for the Miami Corporation even given the fact that it was originally an Ohio group. It owns land all over this country. He commented on material he brought to Councilwoman Rhodes five years ago that was important then. He has a respect for Mayor Thomas and he thinks other people in this community should understand that he made it perfectly and crystal clear that he had a connection with the Miami Corporation through the Hunt Club during his campaign and election. He appreciated that openness. Elaine Leaf , 1503 Willow Oak Drive, stated she and her husband moved to Florida Shores in 1996 because they find it to be a very gentle, wonderful and safe town. What worries them right now is the lack of what they feel is concern and response for their first responders, the police officers. These are the men and women who are here to protect us. If you cut their salaries, their benefits, their manpower and their incentives, then what they do is they cut the residents’ safety. They are the ones who are out there twenty-four hours a day. They are the ones who are called out for the drug dealers, traffic fatalities, domestic violence and the robberies. They are their line of protection and they only want the best. They feel they have the best right now. They are concerned they won’t get the best and won’t keep the best if their benefits and salaries are cut. They understand that it is dollars and cents and business but they depend on the Police Department and they are depending on the City and they hope they won’t hurt them because in the final analysis then they hurt the residents. Marty Hurst , 2502 Umbrella Tree Drive, Local President, Fraternal Order of Police, stated they all know city and county governments are trying to make cutbacks. The last place they want to see that happen is with the law enforcement officers. The fact that the City Manager has opened 19 articles in this year’s contract for the Police of Edgewater as opposed to the FOP only opening 2 articles the majority of the articles will impact the individual Page 7 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 officers financially as well as their families. Primary articles under attack this year are health care, vacation and sick time, pay increases and special assignment pay. The fact that the City Manager has inquired about utilizing Volusia County for public safety services and the impact it would create to the citizens. The fact that the City Manager continues to state it is the will of the Council as he persistently pressures upper management to continue to cut already strained resources. Is the will of the Council that they deprive the citizens of services they have come to expect? The fact that gutting the benefits of the employees will ultimately result in the gutting of services to the City. He reminded the Council that they get what they pay for. The fact that Edgewater Police Department has one of the lowest percentages of officers to population compared to other municipalities in Volusia County. 1.55 officers per 1,000 persons. The average is 2 to 4 persons per 1,000 persons throughout Volusia County. The fact that Edgewater Police Department has maintained a high level of safety to the citizens. The City has the third lowest crime rate for cities of its size comparable populations in the State of Florida. The Edgewater Police Department has maintained this average for the past fifteen years. The fact that Edgewater Police Department is actually smaller in personnel than it was eight years ago. The fact that Edgewater has been able to retain qualified and experienced personnel. The fact that high level of public safety services is a double edge sword. This level of services causes a feeling of security but it can also cause a feeling of complacency. This complacency has become evident from statements of Councilmembers who have been annoyed by the sounds of sirens and statements implying that being an Edgewater officer is a lot safer and easier than being a Port Orange officer. He reminded the Council to keep in mind that they are here for liberty and justice for all and they would like to see that happen for Edgewater Police Officers. John Cordeiro , 1515 Pine Tree Drive, stated he worked for Eastern Airlines for 32 years. They threw them out the door, they liquidated the airline and he along with thousands lost their jobs. He lost all his benefits and 2/3 of his retirement. They didn’t go to the City of Miami and ask to help bail them out. He got another job as quick as he wanted to go back to work and then he got another job after that that had a better future in it. He knows the policemen and firemen are all shook up about losing their Page 8 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 jobs but there are other jobs out there that he believes are better than this City. There is no shortage of jobs for people with a job like theirs. He told the guys not to worry and that there are plenty of other jobs out there. Mike Hayes , 3123 Woodland Drive, stated absolutely they can go and get a job anywhere but without them the people that are going to hurt are the citizens. They could go to Daytona or Port Orange but they are here for the citizens of Edgewater and they are here to help them. Jeanne DelNigro , 3130 Tamarind Drive, asked if ECARD is registered with the City. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her they are registered as a political action committee. Ms. DelNigro asked if they had a list of who is President, Vice President, or Chairman. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her Dot Carlson was the Chairman but that she would have to ask them. She asked if they had that information. City Manager Williams stated he was certain they had a list. Ms. DelNigro asked if it would be possible to get a copy. City Manager Williams informed her he would make the request. Ms. DelNigro feels ECARD isn’t working for the City of Edgewater and that is her opinion. She feels Mayor Thomas is doing a hell of a job. As far as the Fire Department and the Police Department, they will not get better people to work in the City. All of the City employees should be holding on to their jobs. They don’t want to see one person lose their job. Everyone should have their jobs and keep them. Gigi Bennington , 121 Virginia Street, stated she has lived in this City since 1976 and she has never had to us Rescue or Police for anything. She had occasion to use it on Easter Sunday and before her husband could even finish making the 911 call, the Fire and Police were at her house and she appreciates that. 5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS Councilwoman Rhodes stated she had a man call her that made the suggestion to put the vacation watch forms on the website so they could be filled out and mailed in instead of having to make a trip to the Police Station. Page 9 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 Councilwoman Rhodes stated she has had just about enough, especially of Ms. Stoughton. She is the one that was in foreclosure. It was a mistake by her mortgage company. If anybody thinks it is any of their business she would be glad to provide them with a copy of the letter stating such. If you want to make a comment about how she does her job, feel free. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. Her personal life is her personal life. If it does not affect this job, it is nobody else’s business. She informed Ms. Stoughton she needed to stay out of it. Councilwoman Rhodes stated as far as the debt goes, she could remember five or six times, at least, when Mr. Hooper was City Manager, they told Ms. Stoughton. Ms. Stoughton never believed the debt but they told her the debt. She told Ms. Stoughton not to stand up there and say she was never told. She was told. She thinks that the people on Council serve at the will of the people of this city. They were elected by the people of this City and are answerable to the people of this City. But there are to be a minimal amount of respect for people that sit up there and do this job for no money and take abuse week after week. She has been doing it for eight years and in two years she will never have to do it again. She doesn’t mind if they have a problem with what is being done here. She will even do everything she can to rectify the problem if she thinks it needs to be rectified. But don’t call names, be abusive. There is no need for that. Nobody up there wants to do that to the people. They want to work with them and help them any way they can. That is why they are doing this job. They are trying to do the best job they can. She would appreciate it if they were shown a little bit of respect from some people. Most people are fine but some are not. They have done it for years now and she is over it. She has kept her mouth shut and she has taken it as long as she can take it. You can stand up and make all the rumor and innuendo you want but that doesn’t make it true. Councilwoman Lichter stated they know her respect for the Firemen and Policemen. She will be on the Council for ten years in November. Her husband was a judge, first a prosecutor. She is very aware of what they do in this community. They have a problem that they are going to need the citizens’ help to help them solve. We are being corralled by the State who promised as campaign pledges that they were going to fix quick the tax inequities and none of them disagree there are tax inequities but there is Page 10 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 no quick fix. There is a committee formed up there. They have spoken to them on the phone and got together with them and talked to them and tried to explain the problem isn’t a quick fix. They have to deal with cutting their budgets 20%. In Ormond and Port Orange that may not mean that much but in a community like ours it does hurt. They need cooperation, creative ideas and thoughts of how they can handle this. Of course they need law enforcement and the best Fire Department but they have to try and work together and see what is going to be cut if that comes about. They don’t know for sure if it is. When she asked one of the legislators if they could do it a little slower and fix the whole thing his answer is whether it is right or wrong they are going to get it done fast. She will always be supportive of the Police and Fire Departments. She spoke of when her significant other was dieing, she couldn’t blink an eye and they were there. We have got the best. Councilwoman Lichter stated the American Legion Post 285 will be celebrating Memorial Day on Monday and the ceremony and celebration will be at the Edgewater/New Smyrna Cemetery at 11:00 a.m.. She feels it is important if people can make it that they come and bring grandchildren. She taught kindergarten for twenty-eight years and the kids now are not getting a civic lesson or history lesson. She feels if the citizens can give them a living one, they should do that that day. Councilwoman Rogers stated everyone is concerned and everyone is reading what is being reported in the Orlando Sentinel and the News Journal about taxes. The plans are consistently changing. They don’t know yet what is going to happen. The City is in the process of trying to look in areas where they can cut 30% from every department. They do know about the past problems with mismanagement, with mistakes that were made and with bad decisions. They can’t keep going back. They have to go forward. She doesn’t want to see the Police Department and Fire Department diminish and she doesn’t want to see people lose their jobs, especially in an economy where gas is exceeding $3 per gallon and there is talk of it going to $4 and perhaps higher and everything that is going on with the State and the City between taxes and insurance, it is enough to make them all want to go out and live on the intracoastal so they don’t have to pay taxes and insurance. In reality, they all have to sit back and see what is going to happen. They do need to start preparing for it. When they have a Page 11 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 reduction of inflows they are forced to reduce what we pay out. If we don’t reduce or look for ways to reduce, they are going to have to reduce then they are going to have to increase the millage and nobody is going to be happy with that. The City Manager has been meeting with them a few times privately. He has taken steps that were necessary and she knows it hurt individuals but again these are necessary steps. They are here to watch over and make decisions based upon information that is given to them. With the past issues and the past mistakes, they know there were mistakes and they know there are problems. If that is going to prevail, then that would mean they do nothing. She believes they do have a good Council contrary to what some people may think because some of them may not have a consensus up there all the time that doesn’t mean they don’t respect one another’s decision from time to time. It takes good men to turn it around and it doesn’t happen over night. They have to work as a whole. They have to work together to fix this mess. Councilwoman Rogers stated she received a ticket in the City. Some of the Police Department thinks she is out of to get them. She is not. If she wasn’t a City Councilperson, she would have fought it. She hasn’t received a ticket in anywhere from ten and fifteen years or longer. She told the Police Officers she isn’t there to try to fight or knock them for their jobs. She also isn’t there to knock the Firemen for their jobs. As far as her discussion is the past regarding pension, it had nothing to do with the Fire or Police pension. It had do with the issues with the General Employee pension. That doesn’t mean she is against the City employees either. She is here representing everyone as a whole. What is best for everyone. Someone is going to be offended and hurt but she isn’t directing this as any one person. Councilwoman Rogers stated they would hear her talk again during the shuffleboard court discussion. Councilman Vincenzi stated he got a ticket three or four years ago and it was the same police officer that gave her a ticket. He guessed he was conscientious and doing his job. He wished he would have known who his City Council people were but other than that he did a great job. Councilwoman Rhodes stated it shouldn’t make a difference. Page 12 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 Councilwoman Rhodes asked what his name was. Councilwoman Vincenzi stated it was Officer John Conley. He is very enthusiastic about his job and does a good job. Councilman Vincenzi stated one thing he thinks should never happen anywhere any time is personal attacks on anybody. Tonight they saw a personal attack against the Mayor because he is involved with the Miami Tract Hunt Club, who owns the big parcel of land out by I-95. He thinks that is wrong. Some of these people that have made these comments are friends of his but he thinks it is wrong. He thinks personal comments and personal attacks needs to stay out of the public spot light. Even if they are true. The ex- Mayor Don Schmidt had a brush with the law when he was a juvenile and people wanted to bring that up during the election. He feels that is ridiculous. Personal attacks like the one against the Mayor and mentioning possible financial troubles, which probably didn’t even happen, of another Councilperson is wrong. They need to stop and they really should never even be said in public at all. It doesn’t have anything to do with the way they do their job. If they disagree with what they say or do, come up and say so but leave the personal aspects out of it. Councilman Vincenzi stated another person came up and talked about job cuts and if you get laid off here go ahead and find a job someplace else and that there are plenty of jobs. That isn’t so easy to do. You have to think about what is going on in the State of Florida. If every City gets hit with a 10, 20% or 30% reduction in revenue, every City is going to be possibly laying off people. They won’t be able to get a job. His goal first and foremost is to make sure nobody loses their job. Then they will work on all the other things afterwards as far as cutting benefits, pay and whatnot. They have to see how much money really gets chopped out of the budget before they seriously try to figure out what else needs to be done. In this day and age in Florida especially it is not going to be easy to do and there are going to be a lot of people that are going to be devastated if what they are talking about as far as tax cuts really happens. Councilman Vincenzi stated everybody comes to the Council meetings, especially around tax time. They are looking everywhere for places to cut money and places to reduce expenses. Everything from the little trash collector guy to department heads. Some of the people that make the Page 13 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 biggest salaries are the people that have been here the longest and they are the ones that have different types of benefit plans as opposed to the benefit plans that newer employees have. Newer employees are a lot cheaper to keep than department heads that have been here twenty or thirty years. They can’t just get rid of people. That is why they are going through this painful process of trying to figure out where they can cut expenses and where employees are willing to compromise and how they can help out the City so nobody loses their job and everybody still is able to live and maintain a good standards of living while not cutting back services. There are a lot of things that need to be talked about in the next couple of months as the State Legislature goes through it’s special session to see how they are going to try and reduce taxes and things. He asked how many regular citizens contacted their State Representatives. A couple but not nearly enough. State Representatives are up there and they are going to be negotiating and bargaining and doing whatever they have to do in this upcoming special session because they want to get reelected next time. They need to call them and tell them how they feel and tell them if they don’t do a reasonable job they won’t vote for them no matter what they do. He drives to Orlando every day. Gas prices are $3.20 a gallon now. He joined a vanpool. He isn’t going to give up his job because gas prices are high so he finds ways to cut. These are things that people have to do. They also have to contact the County, State and Federal Representatives. Every piece of governments get a little piece of money. He commented on an article in the newspaper regarding gas taxes. He commented on the County of Volusia having a 12 or 15-cent tax on every gallon of gas. They don’t have this in Orlando where their gas is around $2.97 a gallon. That is a big difference. Whenever he drives his car out there, he gets gas out there. The people need to complain everywhere to everyone who will listen to them. That is the only way anything is going to get done. Mayor Thomas thanked the City Employees that were at the meeting for coming to the meeting. He expressed his appreciation for them participating. This affects them. If they want to get up and say something at any time, you feel free to and you will not be chastised as long as he is sitting up there. Page 14 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 Mayor Thomas commented on the meetings he has attended. He met with Evelyn Lynn, Pat Patterson, and Dorothy Hukill regarding the tax reform. It is assault on home rule. Each City is a different entity and has been created for different reasons. They all need different things in different cities. In the paper today, it said the State raised the taxes five hundred and something million dollars to support the School Board and they are reducing the property taxes and telling the cities to spend their money. They are inviting them to come down and look at our budget. He was up there today fighting for each job. He has another emergency meeting tomorrow with the Mayors and they are strategizing on how they can reduce this rippling affect. They know they are going to lose services. One thing that hit home with him today was the County Manager Jim Dineen said he is going to have to cut 10% from the jail. He said he was going to have to cut $4 million from the jail. The bed capacity is 1,400 and is already up to 1,700. They are going to go to the judges and say they need to change things. They can’t keep putting these people in jail and then these people are going to be in our neighborhoods. He heard one City say they are going to have to cut DUI law enforcement because they can’t tie up their police officers for the amount of time it takes to process. He feels a domino effect is going to happen. He agreed the tax system is broken but feels they need to do it with equality, not penalize us and point the finger at the cities and say they are the bad guys. It is a political battle up there and they are blaming it on us. They are cutting it just as fine as they can. He guaranteed the City employees he is fighting for their jobs and benefits as much as he can. Mayor Thomas commented on how proud he is of the Miami Tract Hunt Club. He stated the Miami Tract Hunt Club leases the hunting rights out there and they purchase the water. He is smart enough to know that 261 people are not going to use the amount of water that would go to the City of Titusville. They have a guide sitting in the fire tower today. Each one of his members is required to sit in that fire tower for six hours every day from May 1st through th August 30. They spotted a fire down there yesterday and it has grown to 200 acres. Not only do they provide a home for the game species out there, they also provide a home for the non-game species. People don’t’ realize what they do. He didn’t know where the attacks came from. If you know Mike Thomas, when you get on him then he just fights Page 15 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 back that much harder. If you are a spade, he is going to call you a spade. If you are a liar, he is going to call you a liar. If it is in a public meeting and if it is not true, then let them do something about it. Mayor Thomas called a ten-minute recess. The meeting recessed at 8:00 p.m. and reconvened at 8:10 p.m. 6. CONSENT AGENDA There were no items on the Consent Agenda to be discussed at this time. 7. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS nd A.2Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-37, City of Edgewater, on behalf of Frank and Donna Morris, requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include 10± acres of land located north of Oak trail, west of 2967 Oak Trail as RT (Rural Transitional) cont. from 3/5/07, Item 7G rezoning () City Attorney Ciocchetti read Ord. 2006-O-37 into the record. Frank Morris , applicant, was available to answer questions. Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and closed the public hearing and entertained a motion. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-37, City of Edgewater, on behalf of Frank and Donna Morris, requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to include 10± acres of land located north of Oak Trail, west of 2967 Oak Trail as RT (Rural Transitional), second by Councilwoman Lichter . The MOTION CARRIED 4-1. Mayor Thomas voted NO . B. Resolution No. 2007-R-05, which would include property owned by Southeast Volusia Hospital District as vested pursuant to the Annexation Agreement, which allows heights in excess of 35 feet Page 16 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 City Attorney Ciocchetti read Res. 2007-R-05 into the record. City Manager Williams made a staff presentation. Miranda Fitzgerald , Law Firm of Loundes, Drosdick, Kantor & Reed, 215 N. Eola Drive, Orlando, representing Southeast Volusia Hospital District, stated they entered into an agreement with the City in December 2004 that committed the Southeast Volusia Hospital District to annex the 71 acres of property and in return for that it was really a mutual benefit agreement because the City couldn’t annex additional land to the south of this project without this particular piece of property coming into the City. In return for the agreement to annex and the City’s ultimate annexation, they were very careful when they crafted the annexation agreement to go point by point and include in the annexation agreement virtually everything you would typically have in your PUD agreement recognizing they still had to come back and get the property zoned but they wanted to make certain they had an understanding with the City before they annexed about what their intentions were for the development of that site and what the City’s intentions were. They have that agreement. She thought it was through an oversight that it got omitted from the original resolution that they passed. They would appreciate the Council rectifying that now and recognizing this project too has vested rights. She would be happy to answer any questions. Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing. Councilwoman Lichter congratulated Ms. Fitzgerald for being so perceptive. Councilman Vincenzi stated he wants this to go through and he is going to vote for it. He wanted to make sure that there is no chance that somebody will come back later and bother them and try to dispute anything. ECARD has said they have never been against hospitals building structures higher than 35 feet for the good of the community and he feels that is great. City Manager Williams informed him there is always a potential that somebody might try to challenge. Councilman Vincenzi asked if they had their ducks in a row where they can fight it. City Attorney Ciocchetti stated effectively the annexation agreement is a PUD Agreement and is probably included with the others. Page 17 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 Councilwoman Rhodes stated after reading the annexation agreement she felt it was clear that they are vested. Councilwoman Rogers stated even if they weren’t vested they would have asked to have this put on the ballot so they could get what they need. This just saves them from having to go through that step. Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a motion. Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Res. 2007-R-05, which would include property owned by Southeast Volusia Hospital District as vested pursuant to the Annexation Agreement, which allows heights in excess of 35 feet, second by Councilwoman Rogers . The MOTION CARRIED 5-0 . 8. BOARD APPOINTMENTS A.Planning & Zoning – nomination by Mayor Thomas to fill a vacant seat due to the expired term (6/6/07) of Gigi Bennington, who seeks reappointment Mayor Thomas nominated David Leonard. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Mayor Thomas’ nomination of David Leonard, second by Councilman Vincenzi . The MOTION CARRIED 5-0 . B.Economic Development Board 1) Nomination by Councilman Vincenzi to fill a vacant seat due to the expired term (6/6/07) of Doug McGinnis Councilman Vincenzi mentioned trying to contact John Nelson over the weekend but he didn’t get a return call. Mr. Nelson was at the meeting. Councilman Vincenzi pointed out that Mr. Nelson lived in New Smyrna and asked him where he worked. Mr. Nelson informed him he owns a software company at 201 S. Ridgewood Page 18 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 Avenue and he owns property at the Massey Ranch Airpark. His business has been in Edgewater since 1999. Councilman Vincenzi moved to appoint John Nelson, second by Councilwoman Rogers . The MOTION CARRIED 5-0 . 2) Nomination by Councilwoman Rhodes to fill a remaining term due to the resignation (4/25/07) of Jerry Anderson Councilwoman Rhodes moved to appoint Patricia Reid, second by Councilman Vincenzi . The MOTION CARRIED 5-0. 3) Nomination by Councilwoman Lichter to fill a vacant seat due to the expired term (6/6/07) of Marcia Barnett, who seeks reappointment Councilwoman Lichter moved to reappoint Marcia Barnett, second by Councilman Vincenzi . The MOTION CARRIED 5-0 . C.Citizen Code Enforcement Board 1) Nomination by Councilwoman Rhodes to fill a vacant seat due to the expired term (6/21/07) of Gene Mirabella, who seeks reappointment Councilwoman Rhodes moved to reappoint Gene Mirabella, second by Councilman Vincenzi . The MOTION CARRIED 5-0 . 2) Nomination by Councilwoman Lichter to fill a vacant seat due to the expired term (6/21/07) of Ed Corn, who seeks reappointment Councilwoman Lichter moved to appoint Ben Wagner, second by Councilwoman Rhodes . Page 19 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 The MOTION CARRIED 5-0 . 3) Nomination by Mayor Thomas to fill a vacant seat due to the expired term (6/21/07) of Jean Kayat, who seeks reappointment Mayor Thomas nominated Alvin Wiefling. Councilman Vincenzi moved to appoint Alvin Wiefling, second by Councilwoman Rhodes . The MOTION CARRIED 5-0 . D.Police Pension Board – nomination by Councilwoman Rogers to fill a vacant seat due to the expired term (6/20/07) of Ferd Heeb, who seeks reappointment Councilwoman Rogers moved to reappoint Ferd Heeb, second by Councilwoman Rhodes . The MOTION CARRIED 5-0 . 9. OTHER BUSINESS A.Sale of ParkTowne Property – staff recommending approval of a Purchase and Sale Agreement and Addendums (2) with MGM Real Estate Group, Inc. for 82± acres of City owned property located in ParkTowne Industrial Center for $4.5 million and authorize the Mayor to execute all associated contract and closing documents City Manager Williams stated the applicant or agent has requested a 30-day extension of the contract pending completion of a wetlands study to determine the number of upland verses lowland acres. They are going to pull this from the agenda and allow him that 30-day extension. City Manager Williams commented on communication from him indicating the study would be done in about two weeks. He also commented on the City’s counter offer to the original contract which targets a number for us to achieve to get out of debt on the remaining property we have out there and fulfill obligations for infrastructure agreements Page 20 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 associated with Base Leg Dive, the Rowan Way extension as well as eliminating some other debt. We have floated the offer of extending impact fee credits to them at some point in the future but they have to wait for the impact of this wetlands study. B.Green Waste/Yard Trash Request for Proposal – staff recommending approval to award the Agreement (5-year term) to Cloer and Sons, Inc. for a fee of $4.50 per cubic yard ($180,000) and authorize the City Manager to execute the documents Deputy Director of Environmental Services Brenda DeWees made a staff presentation. Councilwoman Rogers stated they have had the same price for the past three years and will for the next two years but she is asking them to sign a contract with them for the next five years. She asked their normal way of increase. City Manager Williams informed her it specifies the Consumer Price Index. Ms. DeWees informed her it is stated in the agreement that Mr. Cloer has already signed. Councilwoman Lichter stated she has never seen such a thorough presentation by Cloer & Sons. They sound very cooperative and good. Councilwoman Rhodes stated it says in her paperwork that the City of Edgewater had the lowest disposal cost in Volusia County after the hurricanes. Councilman Vincenzi stated the lowest bid was $4.40 and they bid $4.50. He asked Mr. Cloer if he would be willing to go to $4.40. Councilwoman Rhodes questioned if that was legal. Mr. Cloer agreed to go to $4.40. Councilwoman Rhodes thanked Mr. Cloer. Councilwoman Rhodes questioned having to give the other guy the opportunity to underbid that. She was concerned with legality. Mayor Thomas commented on knowing Mr. Cloer for 35 years. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion. Councilwoman Rhodes moved to award the five year Agreement to Cloer and Sons for Green Waste and Yard Trash removal at Page 21 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 a price of $4.40 per cubic yard, second by Councilman Vincenzi . The MOTION CARRIED 5-0 . C.Shuffleboard Courts – per City Council request, discussion regarding temporary postponement/proceeding with capital project to construct shuffleboard clubhouse and courts City Manager Williams commented on the information provided to Council at Councilwoman Rogers’ request regarding the movement of this facility, the project worksheets, insurance claims, etc. Additionally Councilman Vincenzi requested some capital equipment replacement schedules of the department. The request came in relatively late and he has incorporated a schedule from the Police Department for tonight’s discussion. City Manager Williams commented on the Mid Year Budget Review Cash analysis based off of mid-year budget projections that they will be presenting to Council at a future date. This is one of the main reasons he is going to recommend postponing the construction of this facility in light of this ending cash analysis, the pending property tax issue they have hanging over their head today and the fact that they have began discussing the possibility and have eliminated some jobs and are asking for the employees to come forward with ways to save money. City Manager Williams stated after they net out the pluses and minuses and IOU’s, they are projecting at the end of this fiscal year they will have $527,000 in the bank. There is some policy discussion they need to have later as they present this regarding some of the IOU’s between the funds. This scenario basically pays back some of the IOU’s in one year. They can say they are going to pay it back over a three-year period. He felt it was important to postpone those discussions until a future date to come back with some ideas. The second thing this does is eliminate 100% in one year the transfer from the Water & Sewer Fund which is a significant step in the right direction in terms of turning this whole process around. They internally are evaluating methodologies to present back to Council for their consideration on what an appropriate amount of transfer shall be. Page 22 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 City Manager Williams stated he believes we have a looming crisis regarding our rolling capital in the City. He went over the Edgewater Police Department Fleet/Mileage Listing. He spoke of having other needs. City Manager Williams then went over the project worksheet for the shuffleboard courts as he had broken it down. They can, after they have gone through the process, submit a request for an overrun through FEMA for reimbursement. Today he does not have a definitive yes that they will get that reimbursement. Year to date they have actually incurred $38,000 in expenses, which included the racquetball courts. The City has received $160,000 in insurance proceeds in November 2004. It went into the General Fund and was not allocated to be specifically toward the construction of this facility. He reminded Council that at that time they were responding to Charley, Frances and Jeanne and grasping at every penny they could get their hands on to recover from those storms and that is what the City did. He commented on why they need to place an emphasis on our cash reserves from this point forward in order to correct and prevent situations of this nature from happening. City Manager Williams stated the number one thing they have to do is seek State approval. In order to proceed, the Department of Emergency Management must approve that facility. Leisure Services Director Jack Corder sent the information over in March and for whatever reason, they did not receive it. They drove over and hand delivered this to the folks at the Department of Emergency Management and physically gave it to them for their approval. It is currently being reviewed by them for their acceptance. They have to design the facility and it is on hold pending State approval. Once the State approves the project, staff will proceed with the bid to determine actual cost to construct. He commented on what has been budgeted for the shuffleboard courts. They would have a net impact to the General Fund this year of $224,000. Recognizing they did receive insurance proceeds in November 2004, it went in and became part of the Fund balance and is part of the Fund balance they have on the books today. He spoke of prioritizing and start planning for the replacement of the looming prices they have and build up our cash reserves to be able to respond and those funds were used back then to recover from the hurricanes. He then asked for Council’s pleasure. Page 23 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 Councilwoman Lichter asked if there is a general delay needed anyway because they have to go every level of the plans. City Manager Williams informed her yes. City Manager Williams thought with the delays they have in the approval process, they would clearly have this project shifted into next fiscal year. They are going to have to look at it from the effects of property tax reform and what their priorities are based on the Town Hall Meeting. Councilwoman Lichter asked if they have to pay when they play in New Smyrna. A gentleman in the audience informed her they have to join their club, which is $20 per year. Councilwoman Rogers stated which is more expensive than the fees in Edgewater being $12. Councilwoman Rogers asked Deputy City Clerk Bloomer to put the CD in of the pictures of what the shuffleboard courts looked like the morning after the hurricane. These were the shuffleboard courts that were knocked down within seventy-two hours of Hurricane Charley. Coincidentally that was August 13, 2004. At the beginning of August 2004 there was an ordinance or resolution passed by the City Council to have on a ballot for the citizens of Edgewater to vote whether or not they wanted to spend $1 million for th Kennedy Park renovations. On August 13 Hurricane Charley came and damaged the court so bad that the City said they had to come in and within 72 hours clear the courts. She commented on the damage to the fencing. The clubhouse looks good. She didn’t think that looked structurally damaged. The courts looked playable to her. Someone made the determination to knock down the clubhouse, to clear out the shuffleboard courts and they were told this had to be done within seventy-two hours because FEMA was in town so the City would receive their reimbursement quickly. The City Council was not aware that this happened according to an e-mail that Councilman Vincenzi sent to the President of the Shuffleboard Association. She rode her bike right after Hurricane Charley and didn’t see detrimental damage. She saw things that needed to be fixed but not where this whole thing needed to be knocked down. She commented on the fact that the City received a check for $189,965.00 on November 19, 2004. They are given tonight a document that was prepared by the City Manager that indicated we received approximately $177,000 in 2004 towards the racquetball court and shuffleboard courts. This was just the insurance Page 24 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 reimbursement. We will not receive reimbursement from FEMA until the shuffleboard courts and clubhouse and everything has been rebuilt. The Shuffleboard people have asked, written letters, and called requesting information regarding the status of this. They haven’t been told clearly anything. When she sees this City received this money in November 2004 and she as a Councilperson did not know the City received this insurance money until last Monday. She is appalled. She is left in the dark and the last person to find this out. She didn’t know if the Council was aware of this or not. She has had a passion about this. She has asked questions. The old City Manager should have told her they received insurance money. Most importantly he should have told the shuffleboard people. The shuffleboard people have played shuffleboard across the street since 1961. She believed the clubhouse was built in 1969 by the shuffleboard people with their money. There is documentation and letters indicating how these people did it, the celebrations they had and also letters indicating that the Chamber of Commerce donated funds so the shuffleboard people could have a couple additional shuffleboard courts built. Shuffleboard courts that were donated, a clubhouse that was donated and paid for by members, and the City received the insurance proceeds and nobody knows about it. When something goes wrong, do they just turn and ignore it? They have to do something. They can’t let this go on. Insurance money was deposited into the City General Fund. Why wasn’t this noted in the audited statements? Why wasn’t it brought to the Council’s attention? She feels it is ridiculous that nothing has been done. Councilwoman Rogers stated a City Councilmember admitted in a letter that he knew this was wrong. Nothing has been done so far. She has asked before about the status of things. She just recently found out the City requested FEMA give the City an extension on the FEMA money. They can’t indefinitely say they are going to rebuild something and hope that FEMA is going to give us the full amount of money. Initially they were told they were going to get 100% if the clearing away of the shuffleboard courts and the clubhouse was done within seventy-two hours. Then it was 95%. Then it was 80%. Who knows where it is at this point. She just recently found out that two days after her first town hall meeting where the shuffleboard people came to the meeting and again asked questions about this. They wanted to know the status and what was going on. Nobody Page 25 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 told them that maybe something was in jeopardy. The first thth meeting she had was on February 24. On February 26 Brett Tanner, the Finance Director submitted a letter requesting an extension of time to rebuild those shuffleboard courts. Right now that extension is only good until August 2008. If she read it correctly, it said there were two previous extensions. So they have been asking for extensions. She asked who filled out the time extension recommendation. City Manager Williams admitted it was him. Councilwoman Rogers commented on where it says the extension was needed because of the ability to obtain personnel or equipment and that contractors were unavailable in the area. She said that is not accurate. The accurate thing here is that we were in the red and we needed to use that money. The shuffleboard people have been left in the dark and hung out to dry. They just figured because they are old they are going to go away. They aren’t going to go away. She wants to see the shuffleboard courts rebuilt. She knows the numbers can be massaged and moved and they can use time value of money. They can do something. They need to get this right. The reason why it has prevailed so far is because good men have done nothing. She is here now and she wants to do something. She wants this thing done. City Manager Williams felt it was important to point out that until the State gives an approval, this may be get extended again and again and again and they are at the mercy of that approval. They were also waiting on St. Johns to come through with permitting. Councilwoman Rogers told City Manager Williams he never told them he has been having to ask for extensions from FEMA. She made mention about this at the last meeting. She presented a question about how long it would go on before FEMA says they aren’t going to reimburse us. He never informed her they requested an extension in February, two days after the Town Hall meeting. Why wasn’t this brought to their attention? She is sitting with the shuffleboard people last Monday and that is when she was told. It would have been better to tell her ahead of time. The shuffleboard people are having to pay more to go to New Smyrna Beach to play on their shuffleboard courts. They are having to work their schedules around New Smyrna. That land across the street was deeded to the City and she understands there is something in the deed that indicated that the shuffleboard courts were to stay on that land. She asked if they needed to get an attorney and come back Page 26 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 at us. That is what she has heard they are looking at doing. City Manager Williams informed her this is the first time he has heard anything about a deed restriction. If there is a deed restriction on that location, he would be glad to research it. Until they get final State approval, this could receive additional delays. Until they start properly planning for the replacement of our rolling capital to provide the essential police and fire services they have out there, until they start addressing the cash reserves to properly plan for and be able to respond to hurricanes again until they get the situation resolved or know what is going to come down from the State Legislature, it is his recommendation to postpone this project. Councilman Vincenzi informed Councilwoman Rogers he has a lot of respect for her and she makes a lot of good comments, which he appreciated. He admitted that things have been done that weren’t proper, like the bulldozing of these courts on a spur of the moment without notification. What he said in his e-mail was true. Nobody up there knew it. Ken Hooper made the decision and went ahead and did it. The City received some money that went into the General Fund and it was spent. That was wrong. The City is in deep financial trouble right now especially with looming tax cuts coming on. It is irresponsible to go out and spend that kind of money on a recreational activity before you know the impact of what will happen in the State’s special session with tax reform. He feels bad for the shuffleboard people. If they had money, he would vote for it today. Being responsible stewards of taxpayer money would lead him to believe that the right thing to do would be put it off one more time until they know what kind of impact the tax situation is going to have on the City. He can’t in good conscience vote for something like this when he knows that he may be having to make a much tougher decision where it would involve people’s jobs and livelihoods. He can’t in good conscience vote for this at this time. He will gladly vote for it in September or October if the money is available and they have a good chance of getting reimbursed. Even if they don’t have a chance of getting reimbursed and the money is available he would still vote for it. Councilwoman Rhodes agreed with Councilwoman Rogers and Councilman Vincenzi. She stated the money they received from the insurance company for the shuffleboard courts should go to the shuffleboard courts. That is the right Page 27 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 thing. It should have gone then. If they didn’t do it then, they need to do it now. If they are saying they made mistakes, tough crap. You make a mistake, you pay for it. The City made a mistake the City needs to pay for. Over and above those insurance proceeds, she agreed with Councilman Vincenzi. Any money coming out of the General Fund until they know what is going to happen with the tax reform she thinks would be irresponsible at this point in time. They are going to have to go through the State process anyway, which will take a few months. By then they should have more information about what is going to happen. Anything FEMA will reimburse is the shuffleboard’s money. She thinks the insurance proceeds are theirs also. She feels it is like a rebate. To compare paying police officers and firefighters and other City employees verses something you are going to be reimbursed for. That is the price of doing business. To her it does not correlate. What they pay out in salaries and the general budget is money that comes from the taxpayers. They will pay out money from the taxpayers for a short period of time but you will receive that money out. The taxpayers have not lost one dime on the shuffleboard court to that point. She feels this is going to take a few months for the permits to happen and in that time they should have a better idea of what is happening with their finances. It would be irresponsible to put public safety at risk so they can have the shuffleboard courts. She wants them to have them and she will do everything to see that they get them in a timely manner. From now on, these people need information. Tell them when you are going to tell them at least. She feels they are entitled to the courts. The money was given to them to have those courts and the money will be reimbursed to the City to have those courts and they should have those courts. City Manager Williams stated he didn’t necessarily disagree. One of his concerns is the fact that if they have $50 in the bank and it costs them $50 and they pull that $50 out of the bank and they have to wait 6 weeks to get it they are running a risk. He didn’t think it was advisable at this point in time to run that type of risk. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they put themselves in that position. This City put themselves in that position. You just have to bite the bullet. Page 28 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 City Manager Williams stated his number one priority is to make sure those paychecks continue to get paid each week. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she just said that. She just said that public safety obviously and jobs cannot come before a recreational activity but she also said they are entitled to it and they should get it. City Manager Williams stated he thought that was where he was going to need direction from Council. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him she just gave him direction. Give them the insurance proceeds. City Manager Williams asked Councilwoman Rhodes if they wanted him to take the money out of the $527,000 they have projected. That is what he needs Council to tell him. Councilwoman Rhodes stated well you took in and spent it real quick so they can just give it right back. City Manager Williams stated he would prefer they use we in that context. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him he was right. It is we. She wasn’t absolving herself from any responsibility. If she had known it at the time, she would have said something at the time. She knew they received insurance money and assumed it went where it was supposed to go. City Manager Williams stated if his memory serves him correctly, there was a resolution that was passed by Council acknowledging the emergency expenditures that were necessary for responding to the hurricanes. In the resolution would have been the expenditures necessary for the demolition. He brought it up to see if any of the other Councilmembers were aware of the discussion. Councilwoman Rhodes stated that doesn’t mean it goes on forever. City Manager Williams stated the point he is trying to make is they need to prioritize. His priorities are to correct the cash flow problem they have, make sure they have enough cash in the bank to make sure that they continue to meet our payroll obligations. If they miss one time, that is one of the criteria for declaring a financial emergency when the State of Florida comes in. That is his emphasis. He recognized the need to take $160,000 out. He can’t do that right now. He is trying to put some things in place to ensure they have enough cash flow in order to be able to respond to a hurricane season. As soon as they can free up those funds, he doesn’t have a problem with allocating it. The crisis they have to address is capital. They have to continue to have the vehicles on the road. That is where he is placing his priority. If they want him Page 29 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 to take a different direction, he needs to know that. If they want him to tell these folks they are going to wait on the cars, that is fine and he will allocate the $160,000 as priority number one going forward. He needs for them to have that conversation as Council/Manager. Councilwoman Lichter stated she was a little bit in shock. She agreed with what has been said previously by her fellow Councilpeople. Unhappily it might have to wait. Other things in this City have waited three to four years now and the money is in the bank for it. They didn’t take the animal shelter money and put it for the purpose of the hurricane. That was voted on with a positive vote from the public. She feels they owe them an IOU if nothing else. They need some assurity that it is really going to happen but at the moment they have to wait a bit of time. Councilwoman Lichter asked who took the pictures and if there were any of the mural. She worked very hard to get the $5,000 that Courtney Canova painted with real historic scenes. She never saw the wall. th City Manager Williams stated when they met April 30 he distributed to Council a packet of everything he has been able to run down in terms of the inspection from the Chief Building Official, communication from the Leisure Services Director and the pictures that the City had of the damage to that facility and provided them with that information. Councilwoman Rhodes asked City Manager Williams to have this on one agenda a month so they revisit this topic every month and get a status report on where this is. Councilman Vincenzi asked if they could wait until after the special session in Tallahassee. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him they could. Mayor Thomas stated it is unfortunate and they could point fingers at who did what. They need to take responsibility. It is gone and they need to rebuild it. He informed Councilwoman Rogers if her daughter wanted a dress and she knows she has to put food on the table then she is going to make a responsible decision and put food on the table. Councilwoman Rogers informed him he couldn’t use that. Mayor Thomas informed her he could. Councilwoman Rogers stated if she wanted a dress… Mayor Thomas banged the gavel and informed Councilwoman Rogers he had the floor. Page 30 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 Mayor Thomas stated they are in a terrible, terrible situation. He has never seen anything like this in the State of Florida. When you are a government employee, you either do it because you believe in it or you do it because you want a secure job. You know you aren’t going to get the money that the outside world is giving you. You are going to do it because you have a secure job and the benefits that come along with it. He has never seen the amount of people that are scared for their jobs. This is a serious situation. That is why he is going to two or three meetings every day. It isn’t right what they are trying to do to the City. The have already cut to the bone and now they want to cut some more. If each department has to cut 1/3, it is going to be terrible. They aren’t going to have services. It is going to be a domino effect. Two or three years down the road, they are going to say they don’t have that service anymore. They need to do something about it now. There is no question the tax system is not fair and not equitable. They need to give it to the Tax Reform Commission and let them come up with a plan. Not a bunch of legislators fighting a political battle in Tallahassee and that is exactly what is going on up there and making the cities look like the bad guys. He commented on loving to play shuffleboard. They need to make responsible decisions. He appreciated the other Councilmembers making those responsible decisions. Councilwoman Rogers asked City Manager Williams when the Disaster #1539 FEMA Project Worksheet was prepared. Would it have been prepared around the time they were asking for FEMA to give us money. City Manager Williams stated it is part of the public assistance process. It would have been prepared right after the hurricanes. Councilwoman Rogers commented on the figures not matching with regard to the shuffleboard clubhouse. She asked if City Manager Williams was telling her it is going to cost the City $137,000 to put the lights out there. City Manager Williams stated he didn’t know the answer until they bid the project. He commented on why the figures don’t match. They wrote the project worksheet in 2004 and they have experienced 40% and 50% increases. Councilwoman Rogers feels it is smoke and mirrors. When Mayor Thomas talks about every Councilmember up there about making their decision and doesn’t even mention her name, please. This is ridiculous. She is looking at numbers and Page 31 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 what is right. Something could be done. She didn’t care if they take baby steps. They did received $189,000. You are going to tell me they can’t at least start something, at least the shuffleboard courts. The money they are talking about putting out they are going to get back. She feels they are going to lose it and FEMA isn’t going to give them another extension and they will not get the money and these things will not be rebuilt the way they should have been rebuilt. They shouldn’t have been knocked down in the first place. Smoke and mirrors, that is what they have. Mayor Thomas entertained a motion. Councilwoman Rogers stated try to prove me wrong. If you prove me wrong she will still win because if they can prove her wrong they will have the shuffleboard courts. Ms. Stoughton asked her if there were going to be citizen comments. Mayor Thomas informed her no. Councilwoman Rogers’ husband encouraged the Council to prove her wrong. Mayor Thomas stated he wasn’t saying she was wrong. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they aren’t disputing what she is saying. Mayor Thomas stated he agreed with what she says. They have to make a decision. He asked who they want to fire? Councilwoman Rogers stated that wasn’t what she was asking. Ms. Stoughton felt there should have been an Attorney General investigation into this matter a long time ago. Councilwoman Rogers made a motion that they do something and correct the wrong that has been done . The City received $189,965.74 and the City should say to the shuffleboard people here, it is your club, it’s your shuffleboard courts that you want rebuilt. We will turn this over to you because since we didn’t management this very well and maybe you can and then let the shuffleboard people and herself form something and go out and ask citizens to help them to rebuild this. She bet they could. They have already spent $38,000 in engineering fees. Mayor Thomas asked if there was a second to that. Councilwoman Rogers stated of course not. Councilman Vincenzi asked if someone could summarize that. Councilwoman Rogers stated let us have the $189,965.74. They have already done the engineering of roughly $48,000 and let them get this thing built. Let them manage it. Page 32 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 Councilwoman Rhodes stated come back with that motion after the tax reform and after they are permitted. If they can’t get permitted, this is a moot point right now. Councilwoman Rogers asked why they couldn’t get permitted. Leisure Services Director Jack Corder stated they currently have in hand the St. John’s permit. Now Emergency Management has to review it and give us the okay to move forward with the project. Councilwoman Rogers stated so if they get that by a certain date will the Council say they will come back and let them have the $189,965.74 so they can go forward. Councilwoman Rhodes stated once it comes back let’s make the motion again. She thinks they will have more information. City Manager Williams stated that is not it. At that point they have crossed one of the hurdles they have just identified. Then you will have to design the facility and bid the facility. At that point in time they will take those budgeted numbers and he will present factual numbers based off of the bids that come in for the construction. He feels they would be in a better position to make the decision to proceed and they would have definitive numbers. Councilwoman Rogers stated Mayor Thomas wouldn’t allow citizen comments but she thinks a couple of the shuffleboard people need to get up and explain or give them some more input. Mayor Thomas stated that was fine, the shuffleboard people. Carol Ann Stoughton got up and said she was with them too. Carol Ann Stoughton , 2740 Evergreen Drive, commended Councilwoman Rogers for digging into this. When she says she is going to do something, she does it. Are these real figures or fake figures or are they going to come back with different figures? She informed Councilwoman Rhodes she found out in January from City Manager Williams what the debt was. They didn’t know it, she didn’t know it and the citizens didn’t know it. Page 33 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 Councilwoman Rhodes stated they have an auditor’s report every year and it is in there. Mayor Thomas informed Ms. Stoughton she needed to address the whole Council and not just one person. Ms. Stoughton stated Mr. Williams told her in January and no one in town knew because she talked to thousands of people. City Manager Williams was Finance Director and he knew where this money went and he knew what debt we were in. He was courteous enough to tell her. None of the Council knew it until she asked for it. She feels if the money was given for the cause; why not give it to the cause. That money was appropriated for a certain thing. We evidently didn’t have the money in our Charter which is required and that is why the money was taken out. She feels the City Attorney should have an investigation as to who decided to do this and knock it down. She feels those people should be made to pay. Many people knew what was going on but nobody blew the whistle. She asked City Manager Williams if he knew what was going on as Finance Director. Mayor Thomas again informed Ms. Stoughton she must address the whole Council. Ms. Stoughton stated she has a right to ask him a question. Mayor Thomas informed her she didn’t. Ms. Stoughton then asked Mayor Thomas if he knew what was going on. She told Mayor Thomas to tell the audience they were out of order when everyone started applauding. Ms. Stoughton stated they have a right to know what is going on. She asked Mayor Thomas if he could ask City Manager Williams if he knew what was going on. Mayor Thomas asked City Manager Williams if he knew what was going on. City Manager Williams stated what he did know was the City was recovering from three hurricanes. The City as they have pointed out many times needs to change their policy regarding the number of cash reserves or at least attain the cash reserves we have. They were using every available resource to respond to those hurricanes. Ms. Stoughton then asked what they paid for water meters. Was it $5 million or $15 million? Are they done paying $15,000 for a survey? Page 34 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 Councilwoman Rhodes stated it has not cost the City one penny for those water meters. City Manager Williams stated that answer is in the CAFR, along with every other answer. Councilwoman Rhodes stated every single year our debt is in our auditor’s report. You can read it every single year. It is public knowledge and nobody tries to hide it. City Manager Williams thought Financial Note #8 deals specifically with the debt that the City has on its book. If not there is a debt schedule in there that identifies every amount of debt we have on the books. Dennis Buelk , 2419 Woodland Drive, stated there were mistakes made and most of the Council agrees there was. He thinks the part of the opinion was when they decided to take those courts down they were interested in that property for a couple of years and that made the decision. He had an article from March 1, 2002 from the Observer showing what they had planned for that property. Mayor Thomas stated he didn’t understand how you could damage a shuffleboard court. There would have to be some severe scars or something. They realize the problem but they are financially strapped right now. He knows there is some money for that but they need to just wait. He wants to do it. He thinks there were some things done wrong and everybody is pointing the finger at everybody. They need to make amends and they need to have a shuffleboard court. He knows we can’t afford it and he knows it isn’t a popular decision. Councilwoman Rhodes felt they could move forward until they get to a point where they have to say no. Right now, they don’t have enough information to say no at this point. She felt they could go for the permitting and get to a point where they need the cash, maybe they will have it. They are getting that insurance money if City Manager Williams has to take a pay cut. Let’s move forward. She has asked City Manager Williams to keep it on the agenda every month so they know where they are in the process. When it gets to the point where they need cash in hand, then let’s take another look at it. Maybe then they will be able to give them a definite time line of when it is going to occur. Councilman Vincenzi felt that was all anybody up there was saying, except Councilwoman Rogers. Page 35 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 Mr. Buelk stated he was the one that took the pictures and when he went over there the day after the hurricane the wall was already down. Dominic Capria , 606 Topside Circle, stated he is a little concerned. They are talking about $160,000 in insurance and $189,965.74, which comes up to $355,000 total. They should be talking about that amount and they are talking about $189,000. He feels they should definitely check into the deed. The shuffleboard courts must stay here. He would like to see that checked. That is where they should be. City Manager Williams stated fast-forwarding it to today’s scenarios they talk about a wrong or misappropriated funding. He stated they have an impact on this coast of a major event. They sit down and look at priority of funds or the restrictive use of funds. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she understood why it happened but feels it doesn’t have to go on forever. City Manager Williams agreed. Hence his point of trying to constantly bring forward and make recommendations that they need to make some changes regarding how they handle their cash reserves. Mayor Thomas stated Councilwoman Rogers made a motion and they had no second. He asked if anyone wanted to make another motion. Councilwoman Rhodes made a motion to move forward with the shuffleboard courts with the permitting process and that it be on the agenda every month so they are updated all the time and when it is time to have cash in hand, that they have another discussion and vote, second by Councilwoman Rogers . The MOTION CARRIED 5-0 . 10. OFFICER REPORTS A. City Clerk Deputy City Clerk Bloomer had nothing at this time. B. City Attorney Page 36 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 City Attorney Ciocchetti reported that they are looking at the issues related to west of the I-95 petition and they should have some word product to them shortly. Mayor Thomas commented on the ECARD petition west of I-95. He has gotten complaints about them misrepresenting themselves about protecting the wetlands. When they ask to see the petition they don’t have it and inform them it is just one house per twenty acres. He asked if they could have a little investigation into that. Councilwoman Rhodes reported she also had received complaints. Mayor Thomas stated he also had complaints from business owners that they were trespassing on their property illegally. He feels they need to investigate that. City Manager Williams stated they certain would. There were applause from the audience. C. City Manager 1) Planning & Zoning Board request to Council for Joint Workshop City Manager Williams referred to a memo from the Planning & Zoning Board requesting a joint meeting with Council. They also would like to add that it would be a good time to have a discussion regarding the Evaluation & Appraisal Report. It is the necessary steps the City needs to take for changes to the Comprehensive Plan and it is a requirement that is done every seven years. He feels they needed to look at their schedules for consideration of the joint workshop with the Planning & Zoning Board. When they discuss vision and recognizing that Board has taken some great steps in trying to develop a vision for the City. He has submitted to Council as one of his goals a recommendation to establish an official visioning committee made up of members from the Planning & Zoning Board, Economic Development Board, Recreation/Cultural Services Board, Parent Teacher’s Association, New Smyrna Beach High School SGA, Council on Aging and one member at large so they get a good representation of the demographics that exist in the City. The number one goal should be to establish a goal for the city in fifty years and the next step would be to hopefully try to establish a vision statement. He will have Paralegal Robin Matusick contact the Council for coordination of a joint workshop. Page 37 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 2) Special Meetings scheduled for May 23, 2007 and May 30, 2007 to consider Ord. No. 2007-O-12 which could increase the senior homestead exemption of up to $50,000.00 City Manager Williams then commented on the need to have a Special Meeting regarding the additional senior homestead exemption that is available. There is a deadline of June st 1 that if the Council is going to take action has to be st read into and adopted by June 1 or they will miss that st deadline and will have to wait until the December 1 deadline. He then went over the status of other Volusia County cities and where they are at in the process. Councilwoman Rhodes asked who decided the cut off would be st June 1. City Manager Williams informed her the State. Councilwoman Rhodes didn’t feel it was fair to do this before the tax reform. City Manager Williams stated to date they know there are about 738 residents that would qualify for that exemption, which would have an effect of about $105,000. th Councilman Vincenzi stated he wouldn’t be here May 30. City Manager Williams stated they could postpone it. Actually his recommendation would be to postpone it until they know what is going to happen at the State level and he could bring it back to Council before the December 1st meeting. Councilwoman Lichter stated if seniors have an income of less than $20,000 they already have one. City Manager Williams stated it is still in effect. It was the consensus of Council to postpone it. 3) Tentative Agenda Items City Manager Williams stated they are preparing for the th July 4 celebration and wanted direction from Council as to whether or not they want to continue forward with that celebration. To date they have invested $6,000. Where they are heading is they have met with all of the departments and have told them they needed to achieve a 10% reduction in this year’s budget and what they have that is going to affect that is overtime for clean up of the parks Page 38 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 and so forth. He needed direction as to whether or not they want to proceed. Councilwoman Rogers asked if they had talked to New Smyrna Beach about combining the fireworks efforts with Edgewater. City Manager Williams informed her he had not had those discussions. Fire Chief Barlow stated they had negotiated with New Smyrna in previous years and they were willing to combine them but they had to be shown in New Smyrna. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they do so little in this City and asked how much they cost. City Manager Williams informed her $12,000 and then they have overtime associated with the event. Mike Hayes commented on spending $12,600 per year for the fireworks and if they were to go in with New Smyrna they would probably windup paying more than that. We get a great deal from Zembelli. If they go in with New Smyrna they are still going to pay overtime to help clean up. He would like to keep it in Edgewater and come up with ways to help raise money. The Volunteer Association raises $6,300 and the City kicks in $6,300. They need to know because if they aren’t going to go through with it, he needed to get in contact with Zembelli and see what they could do about getting some type of fees back. Councilwoman Rhodes felt this summer was going to be a tough summer and that they should celebrate something. Councilwoman Lichter felt it was an important thing to celebrate but she felt there may be ways they could cut cost. She suggested using the CAP guys. Sometimes communities volunteer that way. City Manager Williams stated they would certain explore every avenue. The reason they are bringing this before Council is because they have told the departments to come up with a 10% reduction. Over time for special events, and this type of nature is specifically targeted as achieving those savings. Councilwoman Rogers felt the fact that they have already put out the money is a no-brainer. It was the consensus of Council to proceed. City Manager Williams commented on a proposal from Government Service Group Inc. to provide professional Page 39 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 services and the development of non-advalorem funding alternative for the City’s Fire Service. He will bring th this back as an official discussion item on June 4. This was something he identified in the goals workshop they had. Shortly following that he had a meeting with a former City Manager, John Kevin Grace who is now doing consulting work for them and he happened to come in so timing of that was fortuitous. City Manager Williams stated they are going to proceed with a discussion item on the proposed Animal Shelter at the th June 4 meeting. They will be presenting Performa operating budgets, a radius plan, ordinances, policies and procedures and provide them with the alternatives they have been researching. What they have found and what they believe they can do for Council’s direction and discussion. They thought about trying to specifically address this in the form of a special meeting however the agenda looks like it can support a discussion item of this nature. City Manager Williams commented on the flyer for the Town th Hall meeting that would be held on June 9. It is his understanding all of the Council will be participating. They are preparing a discussion where each department will present to Council what the impact of some of this reduction will mean and the quality of services they provide today. He feels it is an important discussion they need to have. Through that discussion they can start developing steps to correct some of the issues they identified tonight. At that same point in time they will have available facts about property tax, which is something they have included in the budget this past year. He didn’t know if the citizens knew it existed. They are going to proceed with having some of those printed and made available for the citizens. Councilwoman Rhodes suggested they put some on the counter in City Hall where you pay the water bill. City Manager Williams commented on trying to include some interesting facts. They will be distributing these to the citizens in trying to communicate the property tax. City Manager Williams commented on posting the Town Hall Meeting notice on the Internet as well as sending out some invitations via e-mail. They are also looking at printing inserts and stuffing them into the News Journal and running Page 40 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 advertisements as well. Councilwoman Rhodes and Councilwoman Lichter suggested using the Pennysaver instead of the News Journal. City Manager Williams stated they received a quote from the News Journal for 10,383 that includes printing and distribution it is a $700 expense. Councilwoman Lichter stated people are complaining to her that they can’t get insurance on manufactured homes. She feels it is almost just as much a problem as inequity in taxes. She would like to research this. City Manager Williams stated that is an excellent point. When he and the Mayor attend the meetings on the property tax rebate, what keeps coming out is they should be communicating the fact of what has Tallahassee done to correct that problem. They haven’t. If that is an indicating of how they are going to fix the property reform, he feels they should all be somewhat concerned. 11. CITIZEN COMMENTS The following citizens spoke: David Ross , 2803 Needle Palm Drive, stated it is a political war in Tallahassee. There is nobody in the State that is able to negotiate with political warriors. He recommended they suggest the Florida League of Cities and invite the counties to join with them to notify the State Legislature and our beloved Governor Crist that they are going to put forth a petition for an amendment to the State Constitution that will require the State of Florida to roll back their revenues the same amount that the cities and counties are required to and it will pass and they know it will pass. There is negotiating with public. The cities and counties are a problem but so is Tallahassee and so is Washington D.C. This is an opportunity to get the State to pay attention to the money they waste. Would the Florida League of Cities send them a letter and say if they roll us back, they are going to get roll back by the Constitutional Amendment and the only thing they would be allowed to raise additionally by that same Constitutional Amendment would be the same percentage they are going to let the cities raise ad valorem taxes. Mayor Thomas informed Mr. Ross he was on track. They meet twice a week and they have a conference call with the Page 41 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 Florida League of Cities, the President in Tallahassee to strategize. Mr. Ross stated his point is the Florida League of Cities will not be able to negotiate with those politicians but they can tell them they are going to recommend to put forth a petition for an amendment to the public and that will scare them. Councilwoman Rhodes felt that was a good suggestion. City Manager Williams stated the League is developing an attack but the one problem they have is until there is something definitive because there are so many moving targets out there. Dominic Capria , 606 Topside Circle, stated he already got notice he will not be reinsured. For the record, you can get insurance. Whatever agent you go to that agent gets a fee but the insurance reverts to citizens and that is all you can get. If you can’t get insurance at all, the company you first had must hold you. Mr. Capria stated people insure for higher than what their contents or houses are worth. Councilwoman Lichter stated new people can not get insurance and that is one reason houses aren’t selling. City Manager Williams stated if you examine your own insurance bills today they would find that there is a charge for citizens to bail out. John Cordeiro , 1515 Pine Tree Drive, asked if Liz McBride was paid $100,000 to leave. City Manager Williams stated Liz McBride had a contract that had severance. Her severance required her to receive 270 days compensation, thirty days notice. She was paid for the accruals and the total package separation agreement was $106,000. Mr. Cordeiro stated when the City doesn’t have any money that is a lot of money to pay someone to leave. That money could have gone to the police or firemen. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she wasn’t fired. She left of her own accord. It was her decision to leave so what else can you do. Page 42 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007 Mr. Cordeiro stated the City should think about redoing these leaving things and how much they get paid. Mike Hayes , 3123 Woodland Drive, President, Edgewater Professional Firefighters, invited the Edgewater citizens to visit the official website of the Edgewater Professional Firefighters, Local 4575. The website address is Edgewaterfirefighters.org. This is going to be a factual, informational site. He stated he looked forward to seeing th everybody at the June 9 Town Hall meeting. Mr. Hayes stated the Edgewater Professional Firefighters goal is to insure that all employees keep their jobs. They strive to keep the same level of service in all departments. They want to make sure the City still continues to have clean parks, clean, safe streets and personal service from all employees. That is what you get from this City. If benefits are cut and lost, hopefully some will stay but some will go. They chose this City. Many of them have been here a long time and they strive to stay in the City. 12. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business to discuss, Mayor Thomas adjourned the meeting. The meeting adjourned at 10:00 p.m. Minutes submitted by: Lisa Bloomer Page 43 of 43 Council Regular Meeting May 21, 2007