05-07-2007 - Regular
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
MAY 7, 2007
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
1. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Thomas called the Regular meeting to order at 7:07
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas Present
Councilwoman Debra Rogers Present
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Present
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Present
Councilwoman Judith Lichter Present
City Manager Jon Williams Present
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present
City Attorney Carolyn Ansay Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Regular Meeting of February 5, 2007
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the February 5, 2007
minutes, second by Councilwoman Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON
ATIONS
A. Mayor Thomas proclaiming May 20-26, 2007 as
“National Public Works Week”
thth
Mayor Thomas read a proclamation declaring May 20 - 26,
2007 as “National Public Works Week” and presented it to
Director of Environmental Services Terry Wadsworth.
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May 7, 2007
B. Police Chief Taves presenting a plaque to Randy
Mumpower for “Officer of the Quarter”
Police Chief Taves recognized Randy Mumpower for creating
the first newsletter of the Edgewater Police Department
entitled “Edgewater Police Department Cop Shop” and
presented him a plaque for being named “Officer of the
Quarter”.
4. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Dominic Capria
, 606 Topside Circle, stated two meetings ago
he asked about Phase I Industrial Center capital projects
and how much was spent on that. He is hoping to get an
answer tonight.
Mr. Capria stated tonight they talked about reducing the
millage rate. He missed how much the reduction was and he
would like to hear what it was.
Mr. Capria asked what percentage of an increase is that
based on the roll back rate. Last year it was 24.9 for 5%.
With that reduction what is the increase based on the roll
back rate.
Mr. Capria stated Phase II Industrial Center they said we
got a possible contract. The land was worth $5.9 million
and the City was willing to sell it for $4.9 million. He
asked what it is in the contract that they may sell it for.
City Manager Williams stated he didn’t have the answer for
what the development costs are today on Phase I of the
Industrial Park. The total cost of the Park was a little
over $5 million. Today they have outstanding debt
remaining on the Park in the amount of a little over $3
million. They have obligations out there for a road to the
tune of about $1.3 million. They have another obligation
out there for concrete span. They have obligations in
place to the tune of about $4.7 million. They have a
proposal for the purchase of the contract with the idea of
getting us out of the remaining debt that we own and
relieving us of the obligations of the road and moving
forward. That will come back to Council.
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City Manager Williams stated with respect to the millage
rate he couldn’t give him an answer until he knows what the
certification of the taxable values will be. That will
st
happen July 1. At that point in time they will look at
those increases and then the roll back rate will be
calculated out at that point in time.
Mr. Capria clarified that their three minutes included
responses to their questions. He informed Mayor Thomas
that was wrong.
Carol Ann Stoughton
, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated most of
the people in the audience know her. She has been trying
for years to find out the City’s debt. Just recently and
in the past she could never get it from the last City
Manager. Our debt was $48 million. It is at least $45
million now. She feels they should start thinking about
paying off our debt before we incur any other expenses.
High rises had nothing to do with this debt. She asked if
the people knew how many portable classrooms we presently
have yet we keep taking on more developments. She feels it
is a sin that most of the people that are here were here
under the last Mayor and the last City Manager but nobody
ever came forward and told what the actual debt was. She
feels the people had an obligation to know where they
stood. She asked why Councilmembers did not question this?
Why didn’t the Finance Director give them answers? It is
because of that debt, in the past eight years of the
unfortunate, terrible running of our City that we are in
the debt we are in now. She feels it is a sad state of
affairs that they are trying to cut the little guy who runs
the garbage trucks and takes care of the streets and take
away vacation and take away time from him. She feels it is
time to start at the top. She feels they need to trim at
the top. Yet they go ahead with $15,000 for surveys and
call up people because they are thinking that high rises
are going to come in and help them. She feels it is
because of mismanagement that we are in the state we are in
now. She informed Councilwoman Rogers she spoke one time
before about going to the County and trying to get money
back on that quarter they get out of a dollar and go to
them and she says tonight something should be done that
Councilmembers go to the County and say they want more
money back. She feels that was a very good point and she
thanked Councilwoman Rogers for following up. In the past
the Councilmembers knew or didn’t know of the debt and they
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should have informed the people in this town. It has been
a sin and it is a sin what they are doing to the people
that want the shuffleboard courts. She asked where that
money went.
Dot Carlson
, 1714 Edgewater Drive, representing ECARD,
stated the City has contracted with Simon Goodwin, Victoria
Research to conduct a telephone survey of Edgewater
citizens. If the City wanted to inform citizens of what is
happening in their community or find out how people feel
about things going on at City Hall it should have been done
a long time ago. Until ECARD got involved most citizens
were treated like mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed b.s.
The survey is asking citizens their opinion concerning
ECARD. She asked if they are a threat or did they just get
out in the community with petitions and find out how people
felt. Did citizens know about all the property that was
annexed? Did they know the amount of houses that are
proposed? Most of the people were surprised to find out
the total amount approximately 13,000 homes already
approved. Did the City inform the public? You bet they
did, one piece at a time and it wasn’t the whole nine
yards. She stood before this Council in 2005 and she asked
them to vote to put a 35-foot height cap on buildings. If
they would not have ignored that request they could have
voted to put a ballot on the height cap at 35 feet for
residential and a higher cap on industrial, commercial and
public/semi-public. Council refused to even consider
thinking ECARD was an impotent bunch of environmentalists
and tree huggers. The City was wrong but the City has
learned and now they are scrambling to stop them in their
tracks just as they tried before. Good luck. They aren’t
a bunch of kooks. They are serious passionate and
professional and maintain the quality of life they deserve
as taxpayers. It is ECARD’s opinion that the City has not
encouraged large salaries business to join our community.
Most of the jobs are service jobs with minimum wage. Here
we are again. ECARD is petitioning for less density west
of I-95. The owner wants approximately 9,500 rooftops.
More cars, more people, more crime. This monolithic,
monstrosity with a ridiculous nomenclature of restoration
will be a bedroom community to Orlando. She has a brochure
form. Wake up to the peaceful sounds of nature, 30 minutes
to the beach, 10 minutes to the most pristine part of the
Indian River Lagoon. Work in Orlando and sleep in the
quiet, safe town of Edgewater. Is the motto of this City
of the developer, by the developer and for the developer?
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Mayor Thomas stated he believed this Council voted for a
35-foot height cap in the Land Development Code way before
it went to the ballot therefore it gave them discretion in
case a hospital came in where they could give a variance
for that. City Manager Williams confirmed that was
correct.
Mike Visconti
, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, commented on the
accident that took place on Indian River Blvd. and loosing
a young girl, 21 years old, Shelby Kane. This accident
happened because she got off the bus, went in front of the
bus and darted across the road to go to the Library. He
would like to make a request to put a sign at each bus stop
that says do not cross the street until the bus leaves or
have the bus driver tell whoever exits the bus to wait
until the bus leaves before they cross the street. He
would like to see Edgewater become the first City to put
these signs up. He would like to use the same law as the
school buses for traffic to stop until the passengers are
safely across the street.
Mayor Thomas believed that was already in effect. He picks
up his grandson every day from the bus stop and they are
made to wait when they exit the bus on that side of the
street and cross in unison.
Linda Small
, 1629 Willow Oak Drive, stated two weeks ago
the City’s participation, she believed Mayor Thomas in the
conference call to state officials using the Emergency
Operations Center has left a very bad taste in her mouth.
She felt the whole process was an effort to circumvent the
taxpayers of this community. She believed it was
unprofessional and she doesn’t believe it was the right
thing for him to do. The only accounting they have gotten
of the conversations are in the newspaper so she will have
to take their word for it. Some of the media statements
about what was said during those conference calls
representing the citizens of the community she felt were
absolutely false. She felt it went along the same lines of
using taxpayer money to pay for signs on trash trucks to
voice a government’s opinion against Charter amendments.
You don’t use the resources paid for by citizens’ taxes to
vote against the citizens.
Mayor Thomas stated there were fourteen cities that
participated in that. What they tried to do was they saw
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what was coming and they thought they were going to lose
1/3 of their employees. He went up there on his own time
and his own gas to try to save some jobs in this City to
help get them to compromise. He felt they did that.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she went with City Manager
Williams. She was the one that spoke having the most
contact and experience with our local Edgewater
representatives in the past, knowing them for ten years or
more. Yes Ms. Small read what she read in the newspaper
but that is not what some of them said to their
legislators. They said they know there is a need for
reform. She spoke to Evelyn Lynn and Senator Baker that
there is a need for reform. We don’t want a band-aid or a
fast measure. Just like in an article in the Editorial of
the News Journal, she asked if they could wait until the
Tax Reform Committee got the whole situation looked at.
Senator Baker whose comments they didn’t hear in the report
said they are going to pass something this year whether it
is good or not, they are going to get something done.
Those were his remarks to her. Evelyn Lynn talked about
the Senate Bill which compared to the House Bill had some
merit. Councilwoman Lichter said they didn’t want to use
scare tactics. The Mayor talked in the meeting with the
other people but she had the honor of talking to our
legislators and the House Seat Patterson in Deland was more
than cooperative and nice. She felt it was worthwhile and
that they put on the brakes a little bit but certainly are
not turning away. She never said it didn’t need to be done
nor did the Mayor say that.
Lynne Plaskett
, City Employee, stated she has been an
employee with the City of Edgewater for 21 years. Her last
day will be the end of this month. She thanked this
Council, this City Manager and former Councils for the
opportunity to work for the City of Edgewater. It has been
very good to her. She has had her ups and downs as most
employees have, as most Councilmembers have. As a City
Commissioner of New Smyrna Beach, she looks forward to
working with the City Council and continues to support
anything they can do with the City of Edgewater. Thank
you! Thank you! Thank you! She loves this City. She has
given 21 years of her life to this City and she graciously
and humbly thanked the Council for everything they have
done for all of the employees. Please, whatever you can do
to keep their jobs would be appreciated.
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Bertha Morin
, CAP 327 with the Police Department, stated
tonight they were asked to come and support the Police and
she is. She thinks the Council should also consent with a
standing ovation for the Police Department because they do
an excellent job. She works with them a lot and she knows
they are there to do the job they have to do. A lot of
Police Officers are here tonight and she asked everyone to
stand up and give them an applause.
Fred Pelletier
, 1801 Kumquat Drive, representing Edgewater
Shuffleboard Club, stated he didn’t see the shuffleboard on
the agenda and asked if it was on the agenda. He asked if
he was correct that they are considering not building their
courts even though they have all the permits and have gone
through all the procedure. It was voted on by the Council
to build in them Rotary Park. The additional $150,000 that
was needed to subsidize besides what FEMA and insurance had
paid. He keeps reading articles in the paper that the City
is financially in trouble and every time there is a problem
with finances in this City for the past three years he has
been involved one of the first things on the list of things
to put off or not do are the courts. He is concerned
sooner or later FEMA will pull the money and it will kill
this project altogether. It is amazing within seventy-two
hours the courts were dismantled. The building that the
shuffleboard players built with their own money and their
own hands was torn down. The courts dug up, which the
courts couldn’t have been damaged by the hurricane. They
have photos to show the condition of the building and the
courts after the hurricane. He knew most of the Council
weren’t involved with that decision. The decision was
someone else who is no longer on the Council and none of
the Councilmembers were notified when this was done. To
say they aren’t going to do anything because somebody else
did this bad thing, he is hoping this Council will consider
it. The shuffleboard is still the lowest amount of money
spent by the people to belong. They have many handicap and
disabled people that play this game. With some it is the
only activity they can afford. A membership to the
Edgewater Club is $12 a year. He feels this is something
that should seriously be considered. Edgewater should have
shuffleboard courts.
5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilwoman Rhodes commented on an invitation she received
to the Volusia League of Cities. They have this dinner
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every other month. She doesn’t usually go but City Clerk
Wadsworth wants it paid out of their pocket, which she
doesn’t have a problem with. The thing that does concern
her is they pay a fee to belong to the Volusia League of
Cities. If nobody has the money to go to the dinner, which
is where you vote, and you can’t vote anywhere else, then
why are they paying a fee to belong to the Florida League
of Cities? That money is wasted if they can’t vote.
City Manager Williams informed her they would have an
opportunity as they begin to prepare those budgets to
identify and prioritize their promotional fees or
expenditures in terms of belonging to organizations and
that has always been a part of the budget process.
Councilwoman Rhodes would like the Council to consider at
least sending the Mayor or Vice Mayor to that dinner so
they can vote otherwise she would like Council to consider
to not pay the fees.
Mayor Thomas stated he would be glad to pay his own way.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she is really excited to see all
of the employees at the meeting tonight. She knows they are
walking a thin line and wondering what is going to happen
to their lives and they are as well. They can be assured
she will do everything she can to see that there are no
jobs lost in this City. She would like the employees to
come forward and speak if they want to speak. She told the
employees to have no fear of reprisals by coming forward to
say whatever is on their mind.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated the petition that Dot Carlson
spoke about. She would like a consensus from Council to
have the attorney research the legal impact if that
petition passes. When the 35-foot height passed they were
scrambling afterwards. Prior to it the citizens of the
City really didn’t know the financial impact on the City
for that. She would like to see it done differently this
time. She would like to know those things before it
happens rather than trying to play catch up after it
happens. She thinks the taxpayers have a right to know what
it is going to cost them. She would like a consensus from
Council to direct the City Attorney to do that.
Mayor Thomas, Councilman Vincenzi and Councilwoman Lichter
didn’t have a problem with that.
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Councilwoman Rogers stated when the 35-foot height
amendment was put on the ballot the City Attorney they had
at that time composed the exception to that 35-foot height
amendment and she was the one that voted against it because
the wording was ambiguous. If it would have been worded
accurately then things like an industrial park, hospitals
or public buildings, may not have been put under that 35-
foot height limit if it had been worded correctly. Right
now for the City to spend money to investigate this or
that, they don’t have it. They want to save jobs. Right
now they need to really look hard and tough at what they
have and maybe they can come back and revisit this when
they get into budgets but they better see what they have
before they go talking about spending it. They don’t just
have a problem in the City with what is going to come down
the pike when the House and Senate come up with their final
decision. Their problem has to do with the last ten years
and mismanagement, there you have it. There are many
issues out there and they have got to wait and see hat
money they have. She doesn’t want to ask the City Attorney
to chase the wind any more.
Councilwoman Lichter stated three of the Councilmembers now
have sat on the Council for eight to ten years. The debt
wasn’t from putting a few trees in the medians or
necessarily the Industrial Park, but it had to do with
Water and the Water Plant and the things they were required
to do in Florida Shores because with a handshake that got
passed many years ago. The roads weren’t paved and proper
sewers were ordered to put in along with drains. That is
one of the big reasons we had that debt. City Manager
Williams informed her she was exactly right. That debt
that is on the books today and it changes every time they
make a principle payment on it. It is probably about $43
million and it is a result of putting in the new Advanced
Wastewater Treatment Plant and the Alan R. Thomas Water
Treatment Plant. They had a need and a want at that point
in time for roads. They had associated infrastructure with
the emplacement of that. Most of that debt went on the
books back in the early 1990’s and it probably represents
$20 million to $30 million of the total $43 million that is
sitting out there.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she wasn’t saying what she said
for anyone to take personally. With regard to the reserve
they had, at the last meeting they had the City Manager
bring to their attention that if they had a terrible issue
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with a hurricane, we would have approximately 20 days this
City could survive. Then where are the jobs and where is
the City. Way back when, they would have had half a year
or more that they could have existed. She isn’t going to
go down the pike and air the dirty laundry list. They are
going to go through budgets. She believes the City Manager
is on top of it and he is doing everything in his power.
She thinks they need to hold off on spending any more money
until they know what they have.
Mayor Thomas stated it was a four to one consensus to do
so.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated what happens if this does pass
and Restorations de-annexes from the City. She didn’t know
if they could legally do that or not but for arguments sake
let’s say they can. They de-annex from the City and get
annexed into New Smyrna Beach. New Smyrna allows them to
build the houses. Edgewater still gets the impact with the
traffic, the crime, the people but we don’t get any of the
tax dollars. She asked if that is a possibility that the
person that owns those 6,000 acres decide to break it up,
they are going to sell their land. One person then has to
buy 20 acres to build a house. What are the legal
ramifications of that? What are the legal ramifications of
the developer suing the City and he prevails? Does that
then bankrupt this City? Are we not then taken over by the
State because we can’t afford it? She wants to know those
things before, not after.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she is on a Committee for Drug
Free Youth and so is Randy Mumpower who was earlier named
Officer of the Quarter. He is a marvelous contributor to
that group. He runs the DARE program and it is a privilege
to work with him on that.
Councilwoman Lichter stated all of the seniors in the City
are not poor. There is a homeowner’s break for those that
are. Some are poor but basically what she has found in the
last fourteen years is that it is the young couples with
two kids that are really striving to try to make ends meet
as well as single women. There are all elements of the
City that are in need, not just seniors.
Councilwoman Lichter mentioned the mural also being wiped
out, along with the shuffleboard courts that she worked
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very hard to get. She didn’t feel it really had to come
down either.
Councilwoman Rogers stated something really dear to her
heart is concerning her with this City as far as doing
something right. It has to do with the shuffleboard
courts. The senior citizens that use these shuffleboard
courts have been using them since March 1961. She has a
letter indicating events, meetings, people that were past
presidents and the use of the courts. As Mr. Pelletier has
already explained the fee for these courts are $12 per
year. They have seniors in this City that have fixed
incomes that don’t have pensions that are just receiving
social security. Twelve dollars a year for outside
recreation is a definite bargain. She was concerned with
the individuals that are disabled. She met with the
shuffleboard people last Friday and it bothered her that
they have to go to other areas to use their courts. That
puts those people out. These people considered their court
here and their clubhouse here as their second home. They
would have parties and get togethers. They would invite
past Councils to come for various events. As far as when
the courts and the clubhouse were knocked down, she has
been told over and over again that it had to be knocked
down because they had to clear it within seventy-two hours
in order to get the money from FEMA. She also understands
we cannot receive the money from FEMA until we build it but
there is an approximate amount as to what the City will
receive. This is not a capital project where the City is
using taxpayer dollars to rebuild it. If they rebuild it
and add all these other items, then it will be using
taxpayer money. Right now it is just a matter of putting
the money out and receiving the money back from FEMA. She
has been told they aren’t going to be able to rebuild the
tennis court, the racquetball court, the clubhouse and the
shuffleboard courts. She proposed they look at building
the shuffleboard courts, the clubhouse, which wasn’t built
by the City but by the shuffleboard members. They don’t
know how much of the FEMA money or the emergency money the
City has received or will receive. They don’t know what is
the allocation that the shuffleboard clubhouse was to get.
She informed City Manager Williams he had not informed her
yet. She requested and she guessed he hasn’t looked yet.
She stated they have engineering, which means they have
already incurred an expense. There is a limit and a
timeframe on these things. If they wait longer it is going
to cost more money. The engineering may expire. Things
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change, rules change, laws change. The other thing that
concerns her is this occurred in 2004. Here it is 2007.
She asked the timeframe where FEMA might come in and say
they didn’t rebuild and they are going to lose the money.
In 2004, one of the items that was voted on by the Council
that was put on as a question during the voting was a
th
million dollar Kennedy Park Improvement. On August 13,
Hurricane Charley came in 2004 and within seventy-two hours
everything was wiped out over there, including the mural,
which was beautiful and showed a lot of character for the
City. In all due respect with all the money, the people
and the jobs and this and that, all this is is money that
if they spend it, they have been told they are going to get
reimbursed. Let’s just do what they know they are going to
be reimbursed for so they aren’t out any money. She isn’t
asking to spend our money and not get something back. This
has been going on long enough. It was put off when they
started talking about the library. She is looking to see if
the Council is wanting to do something right. Something
wrong was done. It was knocked down, cleaned up and dusted
under the carpet. There was nothing wrong with those
courts and very little wrong with that building. The
people that use that facility said it was not brought to
their attention. They didn’t have a chance to act and the
City Council was not informed. She asked why the City
Manager at that time got away with that. She would have
screamed. She asked if they could take the money that they
know they are going to get reimbursed and use that fund and
at least get these people shuffleboard courts back up and
go towards the shuffleboard clubhouse. If they only have
enough to build the shuffleboard courts, then she would
like to know accountability wise how much of that money was
meant to rebuild the clubhouse. She asked if the City has
received any of the emergency funds yet. During the
storms, people received emergency funds. She asked where
it is and how much it was.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she recalled making this
suggestion months ago and nobody jumped on it. She wanted
to separate out those courts, the handball courts and the
other one, when they had the list on the wall and nobody
wanted to do it. Councilwoman Rogers stated that is
because at the time, they wanted everything and now they
are coming closer to reality. Councilwoman Rhodes stated
they couldn’t afford it then. Councilwoman Rogers stated
they couldn’t afford it then because they were looking to
do all of it. Now, she is suggesting today that if they
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are going to get $250,000 from FEMA that they spend
$250,000, get the money back and at least they have the
citizens of this community back up and playing
shuffleboard.
Councilwoman Rhodes and Councilwoman Lichter asked if they
needed a public hearing on this.
City Manager Williams stated he could separate it and bring
it forward. He understood what promises were made, not
just totally referencing the shuffleboard court. They have
been down this path. There were tons of promises that were
made in ParkTowne that they haven’t honored at all.
Councilwoman Rogers stated that is different. They have
money out there that someone is going to give them back. If
they don’t do something they are going to tell them they
have lost the money or the engineering won’t be adequate
anymore. City Manager Williams explained the problem they
are going to face is they are going to tie up $250,000 of
the City’s resources waiting for the reimbursement from
FEMA. Councilwoman Rogers asked how long it takes to get
reimbursed from FEMA. She would like to see these
documents. City Manager Williams stated the proposed
project would consume about $150,000 of General Fund money.
He would suggest they postpone it and deal with the effects
of the proposed property tax reform. He feels it sends a
very wrong message to the employees as they are trying to
encourage them to come forward with cost saving ideas.
Their jobs are on the line. Councilwoman Rhodes stated
this is not our money. City Manager Williams stated if
they can build a $243,000 shuffleboard court, she is right
but they still have to tie up the resources. He showed
them a chart where they are lacking in their cash
resources.
Councilwoman Rogers informed City Manager Williams he is
talking about getting a line of credit to pay off people
that have hundred thousand dollar accruals because they are
quitting the City. City Manager Williams stated he wasn’t
talking solely for a line of credit for accruals. He was
talking about a line of credit to put in place in the event
they have a major hurricane or major fire so they have the
ability to draw on that asset in the event they need it.
He will bring back anything Council wants and present it to
them. They make the decisions and go forward. With some
of the challenges we are faced with today, he would make
the recommendation and suggestion that they postpone it and
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look at other opportunities for funding down the road. It
may be more beneficial to move that project from Rotary
Park to the YMCA/Hawks Park Complex. Councilwoman Rogers
stated why, they have already spent the engineering and
done all of this stuff. This is what she says. Postpone
and put off, no. How about next week City Manager Williams
gets his documents in order. Mr. Pelletier and the other
gentleman who is the President of the shuffleboard court
community, they get together and look at this. She wants
to see this for herself. She wants to go through this with
them and she wants to call FEMA. She wants to hear with
her own ears that these people are going to take forever to
pay us back. This is a joke. FEMA has given out so much
money since these hurricanes and so many people as
criminals took money from them and here we have something
as simple as this and we can’t get it done. She doesn’t
believe it. They have got to fight and push it.
Councilwoman Lichter didn’t feel City Manager Williams was
disagreeing. He said he would get the information and
Councilwoman Rogers wants to meet with the two officers.
It really isn’t a disagreement. They need to do it now,
not later.
City Manager Williams again stated he felt they were
sending a wrong message to the employees. Councilwoman
Rogers stated she isn’t sending a message. This isn’t
their money. Councilwoman Rhodes stated this has nothing
to do with the City employees. This is FEMA. She
understands what City Manager Williams is saying but when
are they going to have the money. When are these people
going to have a shuffleboard court? She informed City
Manager Williams if he wanted to postpone it to tell her
when he wanted to postpone it to. City Manager Williams
informed her once they tell him when they are going to
prioritize the level of services they want to provide to
this City. He spoke of issues relating to the capital next
door. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him that isn’t money
that is reimbursable. City Manager Williams informed her
but they are tying up the resources and they have a lack of
cash resources. Councilwoman Rogers asked what they are
going to do if they lose the opportunity of reimbursement?
What are they going to tell the citizens? What are a
majority of the citizens in the City of Edgewater, seniors.
City Manager Williams informed Council it is their
decision. He will bring it back and they make the
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Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
decisions. He is just telling them the challenges they are
faced with now and what they are asking everybody to do.
They have a lack of cash reserves. In his opinion, this
should be their number one priority. Councilwoman Rogers
stated that has always been the case here lately.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated yeah lately, not the last eight
years though. City Manager Williams stated they have to
quit looking at the past and make the decisions and move
forward. They have to make the changes today to correct
the problems and challenges they have before them.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked when there would be a time that
they will be able to do this so these people can look at it
and say okay they have to postpone it now because there is
a cash shortfall and if they tie up the cash they are going
to be in trouble in case of an emergency. She would like
to get it on the record when. City Manager Williams wasn’t
able to provide her with that information because he
couldn’t tell them when he would have the adequate funding
to replace the necessary cop cars he has to replace.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked City Manager Williams if he could
tell her in next year’s budget he could budget for it.
City Manager Williams stated he could budget for it but
that is a priority of projects that the Council has to
establish.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if they could gather up all the
documentation on this and set up a meeting because City
Manager Williams has enough to do.
Mayor Thomas asked if they could put it on the agenda for
the next meeting. City Manager Williams agreed to do so.
Councilwoman Lichter asked City Manager Williams if he
could call FEMA to find out of there is a deadline.
Councilwoman Rhodes suggested seeing if there is a
consensus to see if it is a priority for next year’s budget
or not.
City Manager Williams asked if employees, cop cars and fire
trucks are a priority.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed him if he said that one more
time, she was going to jump over and snatch him bald
headed. City Manager Williams informed her he was already
Page 15 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
there. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him he wasn’t taking
anything from the employees. She isn’t asking for anything
to come from the employees. What she is asking for is for
the money to be spent and be reimbursed by FEMA.
City Manager Williams stated just so he is clear they want
$243,000 worth of a project. Councilwoman Rhodes asked if
FEMA is going to reimburse us $243,000. City Manager
Williams informed her that is what the project worksheet is
written for today. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she wants to
spend whatever FEMA will reimburse us for. No tax money.
City Manager Williams stated if he spends $243,000 on
engineering and he doesn’t have enough to build a building
is that it? Councilwoman Rogers stated she thought the
engineering was done. City Manager Williams informed her
that is part of the reimbursement. If they say the project
is $243,000 you have development costs and engineering.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they have to scale back the
project.
Mayor Thomas asked to put this on the agenda for the next
meeting. Councilwoman Lichter agreed with Mayor Thomas.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to put this on the next agenda,
second by Councilwoman Lichter
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
Councilman Vincenzi stated they have had a lot of
discussion about shuffleboard courts, jobs, police and
fire. How many people here support Police and Fire and are
here for them? He asked for a show of hands. He then
asked if they had a choice of spending $150,000 that they
didn’t budget for over and above what the shuffleboard
courts are worth or laying off five police officers or five
firefighters what would they rather do. That is exactly
what they are talking about. City Manager Williams has his
priorities right. All of the money comes out of one pot.
If you take it out to use it for something else you don’t
have it for other things. They are going to get reimbursed
some of it from FEMA for some of the expenses but there is
no guarantee they are going to get all of it. With the
construction costs going up, he guaranteed they wouldn’t
get all of it. When he has to prioritize services and
recreational things, he is going to put police and fire at
the top. His goal being on the Council is to make sure
Page 16 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
nobody gets laid off and nobody loses their job.
Everything else comes lower after that.
Councilman Vincenzi disclosed that his son just went
through the police academy and he just got hired by
Edgewater. He stated for the record that he had nothing to
do with him getting hired. He told him not to apply here.
He is doing a great job with the police force. He comes
home every day and tells him what he hears at the Police
station about how worried they are about their jobs. He
tells him he is doing everything he can to make sure he
doesn’t get laid off. If people get laid off he is going
to be the first one to go because he is the newest one they
just hired. In the past six or seven years he has been up
there, he has had one police officer and one firefighter
contact him. Now they see a lot of policemen and
firefighters at the meeting and he thinks this is great.
He commended them for finally stepping forward and showing
the people what they think and telling people what they
think. He wished they would call him more often. If he
doesn’t know what the problems are he can’t take any action
to fix it.
Mayor Thomas asked if Bill Lasanal, the President of the
Little League was present. He didn’t see him. He was
going to give the Council a report. He reported he has
been out there three and four nights a week. Everything is
going smooth out there. They have taken a bunch of
headaches off of Leisure Services. They have had some
problems with the parents, and some umping and some kids
but he stepped forward and they are doing it volunteer.
Everything out there is volunteers. He was really proud.
They are going to get to send an all-star team to the all-
star tournaments next week. He was out there last Saturday
and there was a lady next to him that said the fields were
like Yankee Stadium. He was so proud of Leisure Services
for the fields being in such good shape. They do a really
good job.
Mayor Thomas then commented on attending the Kids Fishing
Derby last Saturday. They had 203 children participate.
They caught a lot of fish. He spoke of the people outside
the City that attended. Leisure Services did good on that
too.
Mayor Thomas stated he is a member of the Smart Growth VCOG
Committee. He brought the Smart Growth map tonight and he
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Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
would like to show them what Volusia County is doing. They
approved the VCOG Map A today. He spoke of this County
being so far ahead of other counties in making sure there
is green space and conversation corridors and wildlife
corridors. He pointed out the federal, state and county
land. All of the cities have to get together and approve
this map and say they will not build in those areas in the
future. The only two cities that had problems were Daytona
Beach and Deltona. He then commented on the Loeffler
property. They finally made a compromise. They are going
to agree to develop the eastern half and leave the back
half as a decreased drainage basin that goes into the St.
John’s River. In turn the Miami Corporation is going to
give them another connector. They wanted them to get a
resolution from the Council approving Map A and send it up
there.
Mayor Thomas expressed his appreciation to all of the City
employees that were at the meeting tonight.
Mayor Thomas stated they needed to talk about the tax
reform. He will agree that the tax system is broken. It
is not fair or equitable but it need not be a political
fight in Tallahassee and that is exactly what it is. They
are trying to do a band-aid fix. They have a Tax Reform
Commission up there and they need to let them make the
rules and regulations and not just a political thing to
make themselves look good. He participated with fourteen
other cities and up there at the EOC he went to three
emergency meetings last week. He has to go to an emergency
meeting tomorrow that he will attend on his time and his
money and his gas money. There were a lot of people that
felt like them. They had their City Managers and whole
Councils there. They aren’t saying don’t do anything. The
way they were going is they were going to cut a third of
our budget and a third of our employees. He is trying to
look at the future for the citizens of Edgewater. You
cannot go to Norwoods and expect to eat the same as you can
if you went to McDonald’s. That is what some of the
citizens’ want. They want to buy a Norwoods dinner on a
McDonald’s budget. That isn’t going to happen. They have
to face reality and get out there and see what the citizens
actually want. He has talked with a bunch of employees and
Fire Chief Barlow put it the best. He said we are going
through a rough time right now and it is like they are
going down the white water rapids in a raft and they need
to stick together. If they do that they will pull through
Page 18 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
this. We have the right things in place. We are doing the
right moves and this is a bad time for everybody with
money.
Mayor Thomas called a ten-minute recess at this time. The
meeting recessed at 8:13 p.m. and reconvened at 8:23 p.m.
Mayor Thomas reported that they are going to have a Growth
Summit on June 16, 2007 at 8:45 a.m. to 3:50 p.m. at Embry
Riddle Aeronautical University. They are welcome to go but
there are only 425 seats and 40 people have already
registered. You have to register. He passed a copy of the
notice around for people to get the phone number to call to
register.
City Clerk Wadsworth offered to post the notice on the
website.
6. CONSENT AGENDA
A.Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) – staff
recommending approval of the CDBG Annual Plan
Worksheet for FY 2007/2008 to use allocated funds
of $87,461 for playground equipment at our YMCA
facility
Councilwoman Lichter asked to pull this item so they could
discuss something.
Councilwoman Lichter stated the question she asked City
Manager Williams was if the equipment was just for the YMCA
children. They rent the facility that was built by all the
people in this City’s tax dollar. They rent it for a
nominal sum a year. If only the children involved in their
program were going to be using the equipment, she would not
vote for this. She wanted to know if all of the children
in the City would be able to use the equipment.
Lynne Plaskett
, Grants Administrator, stated it was not
going to be used solely for the YMCA. The reason she put
that in her report was to show Council the number of
children that are currently using the YMCA, after school
hours and during the summer time. It will be open to the
general public and will be located on the east side of the
building at the YMCA.
Page 19 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
City Manager Williams pointed out that Leisure Services
Director Jack Corder wrote a memo referencing the intended
use and location of the equipment, which he read into the
record.
Mayor Thomas asked if this came from a grant. Ms. Plaskett
explained this is Community Development Block Grant funds.
The City of Edgewater each year receives a certain amount
of money from the Housing & Urban Development (HUD) through
Volusia County. Each year they hold public hearings and
they ask what the public would like to use the money for.
Typically what they have used the money for in the past
were road and stormwater improvements. This year staff is
recommending this particular recreational project, which
qualifies. It can only be used in a certain target area,
which is low to moderate-income families.
Mayor Thomas stated the kids have the baseball fields and
the soccer field. He asked if this could be used toward
the shuffleboard courts. City Manager Williams stated that
is exactly why he earlier this evening he was talking about
maybe postponing it and moving it to this site. Ms.
Plaskett referred to the maps.
Mayor Thomas stated he and City Manager Williams had a
discussion earlier in the week about the Hawks Park complex
and they talked about moving the shuffleboard courts behind
the YMCA. They weren’t sure if the scrub jays were still
there and if they could use the three acres. Ms. Plaskett
informed him they couldn’t. That is part of the agreement
they established ten years ago. She then informed him the
money could not be used for the shuffleboard courts because
of not being able to match federal dollars with federal
dollars. You cannot match FEMA dollars with HUD money. It
is against the federal law. If they wanted to use the
$87,000 for the shuffleboard court, they can’t use the
money they talked about earlier this evening for the
shuffleboard court, which the City is going to be
reimbursed for. She informed Council she had to have the
th
report in by May 18 or they lose that money. City Manager
Williams informed Council they needed action on this
tonight.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the CDBG Annual Plan
Worksheet for FY2007/2008 to use the allocated funds of
Page 20 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
$87,461 for playground equipment at our YCMA facility to be
located where indicated for all the children in the City to
have access to, second by Councilwoman Rogers
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
7. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
A. Public Hearing, Charles Armitage and Robert Kayat
requesting Final Plat approval of a four (4) unit
subdivision located west of Riverside Drive,
north of Thomas Street known as the Thomas Street
Subdivision
Development Services Director Darren Lear made a staff
presentation.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing and entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve the Final Plat for a
four (4) unit subdivision located west of Riverside Drive,
north of Thomas Street known as the Thomas Street
Subdivision, second by Councilwoman Rogers
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
B. Public Hearing, David Grande requesting site plan
approval of a 27,000 sq. ft. retail center
located south of Silver Circle and north of Oak
Branch Drive to be known as Edgewater Pointe
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation.
Daniel Johns
, Project Engineer, was available to answer
questions.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if this would be the same man
that built the best Western. She asked Mr. Johns to tell
him not to mess with the trees. Mr. Johns informed her he
already told him.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizen spoke:
Page 21 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
Dot Carlson
, 1714 Edgewater Drive, asked City Clerk
Wadsworth to put the map back up.
Ms. Carlson asked Mr. Lear to point out where it was. She
has been there. She didn’t find gopher tortoise. She
wants him to do a species survey. Mayor Thomas thought
that was required. Mr. Johns stated it has already been
done. Mr. Lear stated they required him to do that.
Ms. Carlson stated prior to it wasn’t required. She knows
what he can do to gopher tortoises. He buried them before
and he will do it again. She knows what he can do to trees.
He has done it before and he will do it again. He is not a
good neighbor.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the Edgewater Pointe
site plan with the condition that prior to the issuance of
a development order all comments from City staff are
satisfactorily addressed, second by Councilwoman Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
nd
C.2 Reading, Ord. No. 2007-O-02, Bishop Thomas
Wenski requesting an amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to include
9.97± acres of property located at 2310 S.
Ridgewood Avenue as Commercial with Conservation
small scale
Overlay; cont. from 4/9/07, Item 7D (
comprehensive plan amendment
)
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-O-02 into the record.
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation. He pointed out on the map for Councilwoman
Lichter the location of this property.
Michael Wilde
, Attorney, representing Diocese of Orlando,
200 S. Orange Avenue, Orlando, was available to answer any
questions.
Councilwoman Lichter asked about an entrance to a
development being south of this. Councilwoman Rhodes
mentioned Silver Circle. Councilwoman Lichter knew about
Silver Circle but was talking about one about a quarter
Page 22 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
mile south of Silver Circle on the same side of the street.
City Manager Williams thought she was talking about
Majestic Oaks. Councilwoman Lichter stated Majestic Oaks
where there isn’t too many oaks but that is a nice
development. She asked if this property abuts that. Mr.
Lear informed her it does not.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizen spoke:
Carol Ann Stoughton
, 2740 Evergreen Drive, asked if this
property is the property that is currently owned by a
church. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her yes. Ms.
Stoughton asked if the City is presently getting tax
dollars on that. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her no. Ms.
Stoughton asked if they are going to get future tax dollars
on it. Councilwoman Rhodes stated the church owns it
regardless. Ms. Stoughton again asked if they are going to
get taxes out of it. Councilwoman Rhodes informed her no.
Councilwoman Rogers informed her never. Ms. Stoughton
asked if once they go commercial is it still going to be
owned by the church and what do they plan to do with it and
will we be getting tax dollars out of it. Councilwoman
Rhodes informed her as long as it is owned by the church
and the church makes no money, the City gets no taxes.
Councilwoman Rogers stated churches are exempt.
Mr. Wilde explained if the property isn’t being used for a
religious purpose even if it is owned by the church, they
pay taxes on it. The Diocese of Orlando owns a lot of
property they pay taxes on in Volusia County and otherwise.
He explained this property used to be in unincorporated
Volusia County. They were approached by the City to bring
this property in to the City. It had commercial zoning
before. If you have any attempt to get tax revenue off of
it, this is it. When it was sitting in unincorporated
Volusia County, there was no chance of there being tax
dollars for the City. Now that this is annexed and they
have a potential commercial zoning and a potential future
use with commercial on either side, there is a potential
down the road that this would be commercial.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Page 23 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
Councilwoman Rogers moved to approve Ord. 2007-O-02, Bishop
Thomas Wenski requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive
Plan Future Land Use Map to include 9.97± acres of property
located at 2310 S. Ridgewood Avenue as Commercial with
Conservation Overlay, second by Councilwoman Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
nd
D.2 Reading, Ord. No. 2007-O-03, Bishop Thomas
Wenski requesting an amendment to the Official
Zoning Map to include 9.97± acres of property
located at 2310 S. Ridgewood Avenue as B-3
(Highway Commercial); cont. from 4/9/07, Item 7E
rezoning
()
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-O-03 into the record.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing and entertained motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2007-O-03, Bishop
Thomas Wenski requesting an amendment to the Official
Zoning Map to include 9.97± acres of property located at
2310 S. Ridgewood Avenue as B-3 (Highway Commercial),
second by Councilwoman Rogers
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
st
E.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-37, City of
Edgewater, on behalf of Frank and Donna Morris,
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning
Map to include 10± acres of land located north of
Oak Trail, west of 2967 Oak Trail as RT (Rural
Transitional); cont. from 3/5/07, Item 7G
rezoning
()
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2006-O-37 into the record.
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation.
Cecil Secrest
, 2980 Oak Trail, went over a Powerpoint
presentation. He stated they started this last November.
About three months ago Mayor Thomas asked the Planner and
City Attorney to look into what could be done about the
zoning. Right now it is supposed to be one house per one
acre and seeing what they could do about solving the
Page 24 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
problem of building ten houses on this ten acres. He
referred to an e-mail he received from Mr. Lear with regard
to Mr. Lear not being aware of any such reasons that would
be prepared to change this thing from the RT zoning
classification after going through the Charter and other
documents. The applicant has asked to build two houses on
the easterly two and a half acres and one house on the
other. He asked Mayor Thomas what happens if they pass
this zoning to RT. Can the owners change their mind and
build ten houses if they want to? The answer was yes, he
could do that.
Mr. Secrest stated there are ten five-acre lots, eight of
them owned by Volusia County and two owned by the City.
Volusia County says you can only have one house per five
acres. Starting next year in the County you will only be
able to have one house per ten acres and depending on where
it is at one house per twenty acres. Volusia County is
doing a very good job of protecting the wetlands. That is
what he wants to do with this thing this evening.
Mr. Secrest commented on all of the people he has spoken to
such as Army Corp of Engineers, St. John’s River Water
Management, and FEMA.
Mr. Secrest commented on slides he had of wetlands areas.
Mr. Secrest showed slides of the property. This land is in
the wetlands.
Mr. Secrest commented on having to raise the land four or
five feet in order to build ten houses on this property.
If this is done, he and his neighbors will be flooded out.
Mr. Secrest spoke about having a private shell road that
they maintain themselves.
Mr. Secrest commented on how quiet it is now. He commented
on the amount of noise that would be generated if ten
houses were put in.
Mr. Secrest spoke about the twenty-eight acres they fought
last time and lost. They are now going to build 52 houses
on this property. He feels they are going to ruin the
wetlands.
Page 25 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
Mr. Secrest stated his kinfolk have lived in this county
for over eighty years. He further spoke about the wildlife
that no longer exists because of having no place to live
due to the wetlands being destroyed.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on the private shell road
being the access point to this property. This road is
privately accessed by all those residents so then those
residents have to maintain that road. This man’s property,
if he were to try and come back and say he has the right to
build one house per acre thereby bringing in ten houses he
would then be creating a subdivision and would have to have
the access over that road which she feels would present a
big problem. That is one of the ways he won’t be able to
achieve what Mr. Secrest’s biggest fear is. He is wanting
to just have one house per five on the west and two houses
per five on the east. She asked if they could put in their
approval exactly that because of the problem with the
access in the future. That would be three residents on the
ten so then the other two residents get automatic access.
That doesn’t seem fair. What about the people that are
having to maintain and access it now. There isn’t an
association maintaining that property.
City Attorney Ansay stated the problem they are faced with
right now is they have a property that essentially has no
City zoning classification. They are presented a
recommendation by staff that gives them under the
Comprehensive Plan as it exists today the only consistent
zoning classification allowed. That is the premise from
which they are starting from. In terms of issues resolving
issues relating to access and subdivision and to some
degree wetlands, those issues will all be dealt with when
they have development applications come before them. They
now have concurrency issues related to transportation and
roadways and level of service, which she feels would be
dealt with at that time. In coming up with the competent
and substantial evidence they need under the law to deny
the request, she didn’t think those types of issues can
readily be considered when they are forced to deal with the
situation they have, this being the only zoning
classification they have to put this property into. If it
is denied, there are no other options. They are somewhat
in a position where they have an owner that has been
annexed and has a particular Comprehensive Plan designation
that has a right to this zoning. If it is denied, they are
required under the law to specifically enumerate the
Page 26 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
reasons why as well as provide written notice of that and
wait and see if ultimately it is challenged.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked if only a person can ask for
rezoning. Could the City come back a year from now after
the Comprehensive Plan is changed and they put a different
zoning in place. Can the City come back and say they want
to rezone that property to a different zoning. Mr. Lear
informed her not without the applicant’s consent
City Manager Williams asked if she was implying they would
make changes to the Land Development Code that would not
allow him to have as many units at this point. He thought
that may present a whole new set of legal challenges for
the Council.
City Attorney Ansay stated it is always a problem when you
talk about down zoning.
Councilwoman Rhodes didn’t think anyone had a problem with
what he wants to do right now. She feels they have a
problem with what he could do.
Councilwoman Lichter stated they are trying to get a
classification for this that they don’t have. After they
do that can they not put a stipulation no more than.
City Attorney Ansay stated unfortunately the property has
to be zoned and they can’t make up a zoning classification
that doesn’t exist in the Land Development Code.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they could add a new
classification to the Code. She has never seen the
gentleman that wants to do this. She asked if he has been
there. She was informed he has been there.
City Manager Williams stated they are presuming at this
point this gentleman is going to arbitrarily go out there
and want to build ten acres. He may truly want to build
two on two and a half and one on two and a half.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they don’t have a problem with
that. They have a problem with he could sell that land to
somebody else who then could build one per ten. City
Manager Williams informed her they still have an
opportunity to look at it when it comes back through the
Page 27 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
development process. It would have to meet all the
criteria.
Councilwoman Lichter stated environmental criteria are
spelled out that it would have to meet. That would
eliminate ten.
City Manager William commented on if they got into a
position where they had to bring the road up to City
standards.
Councilman Vincenzi stated the gentleman says he wants to
do three houses. Just like any other developer that comes
forward with a piece of land, they have to take his word
for it until he comes forward with formal plans. There is
no reason to say no now.
Councilwoman Lichter pointed out where it says due to the
conservation overlay on this site an environmental analysis
must be provided and approval by staff prior to any onsite
development. She feels that takes care of it.
Councilwoman Rogers suggested they do the study now so they
have it on record so this person can’t come in and change
the type of land that is.
Mr. Secrest commented on RT zoning in the City & A3 zoning
in the County being the same and Volusia County having a
resource corridor. He would like the City to find out what
they have to do to protect the wetlands.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated unfortunately RT is all we have.
They don’t have any other options. Mr. Secrest informed
her they didn’t have to pass it tonight.
Mr. Secrest commented on another gentleman wanting to build
another house on his five acres and the County saying no.
This gentleman is asking for two houses and he doesn’t feel
this is fair to his neighbors.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated the County has that zoning. The
City does not. They can’t even offer that zoning.
Councilwoman Rogers stated that is why they need to do a
Comp Plan amendment.
Page 28 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
Mr. Secrest asked if they could come up with another zoning
once they find out if they are in the wetlands.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed him this man is entitled to
the zoning they have now, not something they come up with
six months from now.
Mr. Secrest asked what the zoning is now for the City.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated the lowest zoning they have is
RT. Mr. Secret asked what the zoning is now for the five
acres. Councilwoman Rhodes informed him it is not zoned.
Mr. Secrest informed her that was why Mayor Thomas asked
these gentlemen to go off and find out what they could do
to protect the wetlands.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated it doesn’t matter when they do
it that is still the lowest zoning they have. He is
entitled to that zoning.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizens spoke:
Elizabeth Bulholtz
, 2970 Oak Trail, stated the gentleman
was there the very first meeting and he said he was going
to put two houses on the first five-acre lot. He was going
to give the other five acres to this grandchild. When this
grandchild gets this eventually he is going to come to the
City and say he is going to put five houses on the lot.
The City is going to have to give him permission.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed her not necessarily. For him
to put five houses on that lot, he would have to spend a
couple million dollars in infrastructure. That makes
putting five houses on that lot cost prohibitive. You also
have an environmental study with land. The City has Land
Development Codes that if they are in the City they can’t
build on the wetlands. If it is indeed wetlands, they
won’t be able to build on it.
City Manager Williams stated all of these discussions are
related to development, not with rezoning the property. If
they rezone it and five years from now the grandson wants
to look at the feasibility of putting five houses on that
property he is going to go through the process and he is
going to have to apply the Land Development Code and the
regulations they have for compensating storage,
infrastructure requirements, water & sewer lines and so
forth.
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Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
Ms. Bulholtz expressed concern regarding all the traffic.
Councilman Vincenzi stated they are assuming he is going to
build ten houses and he says he is not. Ms. Bulholtz
stated she understand he owns the property but she would
like him to think about them.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he isn’t applying to build
anything right now. He may in the future and when he does
he will have to go through the whole process.
Councilwoman Rogers stated as far as the water that will be
provided, if this man decides to build three homes, do they
have the water there. She was informed the water was
there. Due to not having sewer, they would have to pay for
the infrastructure that Councilwoman Rhodes was talking
about. Mr. Lear stated if they were going to develop more
than three lots they would have to have a full-blown
subdivision platted. He commented on the road improvements
he would have to make as well as sewer line having to be
installed. It is not economically feasible.
Councilwoman Rogers confirmed Mr. Lear said per the Land
Development Code. She suggested adding in there when they
have to approve it because it looks like they have to per
the Land Development Code or any Land Development Code they
change.
City Manager Williams informed her they aren’t approving
any development. Councilwoman Rogers questioned if they
change the Land Development Code, which one is going to
govern this property. City Attorney Ansay informed her the
one that is in effect when the application comes in.
Carol Ann Stoughton
, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated the City
doesn’t seem to care too much about trees. What happens if
the gentleman comes in who owns the property and decides to
come in and bulldoze all the trees down, and then he brings
in dirt and builds up his land? Will this be allowed to be
happening? It seems these people have a right and a
concern because once a developer comes in, the County gives
them one house per five acres and then they come before
Council and before you know it they have another Coral
Trace flooding the surrounding property. This man is
eventually going to get flooded and she hopes he sues the
City if they allowed anything to happen.
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Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
Councilwoman Rogers informed Ms. Stoughton the City has a
tree ordinance. They can go ahead and direct staff to
monitor this property. She commented on when she lived in
Seminole County and Seminole County having aerial pictures
they took so when they would not see the green they would
know somebody disturbed the soil. Perhaps they need to do
something like that in this area to start protecting
themselves from people destroying the wetlands.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-37, City
of Edgewater, on behalf of Frank and Donna Morris,
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map to
include 10± acres of land located north of Oak Trail, west
of 2967 Oak Trail as RT (Rural Transitional), second by
Councilman Vincenzi
.
The MOTION CARRIED 4-1. Mayor Thomas voted NO
.
st
F.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2007-O-11, Halstead
Resources, Inc. requesting an amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to include
.63± acres of land located west of 121 W. Marion
small scale comprehensive
Avenue as Commercial (
plan amendment
)
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-O-11 into the record.
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation.
Brad Haynes
, 1412 Victory Palm Drive, was available to
answer any questions.
Councilman Vincenzi asked Mr. Haynes if he had any plans
for the property. Mr. Haynes informed him they were just
conceptual, a professional warehouse.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he was curious. There is a
little orange piece in front of this property that is still
residential. He asked who owns it. Mr. Lear informed him
that was still to remain and was owned by somebody
separate.
Page 31 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas entertained a
motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2007-O-01,
Halstead Resources, Inc. requesting an amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map to include .63±
acres of land located west of 121 W. Marion Avenue as
Commercial, second by Councilwoman Lichter
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
8. BOARD APPOINTMENTS
There were no Board Appointments at this time.
9. OTHER BUSINESS
A.ParkTowne Amendment #2 – staff recommending
approval of Amendment #2 to the ParkTowne
Development Agreement to include permitting two
(2) points of access on any lot or parcel of
property of two (2) or more acres
City Manager Williams made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if there was any problem with
getting all of the signatures. City Manager Williams
stated they met prior to bringing this initiative to
Council tonight. Mr. Kelsey and his partner have been
diligently working and trying to address that. It is his
understanding they have obtained half of the signatures at
this point.
Jim Kelsey
, Pullman Road, ParkTowne, informed he got three
more signatures today. The requirement is 100% of the
signatures of the owners, which he thought was 36
signatures and he is up to about 20. He had to mail a lot
out because some of the owners aren’t around here. He has
gotten signatures from everyone around here.
Councilwoman Lichter stated in many ways it is a safety
factor for them too. Mr. Kelsey stated it makes it hard to
get 100% if somebody is out of the country or doesn’t live
around here.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they are putting the cart
before the horse. City Manager Williams informed her not
Page 32 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
really. They are addressing amendment #1 as well as Mr.
Kelsey addressing amendment #2. The problem existing today
is they are coming at this from two points of interest
trying to accomplish the fact that he has a project out
there that he spend a significant amount of dollars on that
is being held up due to the fact that this amendment hasn’t
been approved. He is incurring some cost to date as such.
They have met and mutually agreed to work with him in
coming back forward in trying to get this issue resolved.
He thought there was a clear understanding that those
signatures have to be obtained. This is just one of the
processes they need to get resolved while he is still
trying to resolve 100% of the signatures.
Mr. Kelsey stated it is one more step in the long path to
get this done. He informed Council they have 5 ¼ acres and
they could have five driveways if they subdivided the
property, which they don’t want to do.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes made a motion to approve Amendment #2
with the condition that the required signatures are
obtained from the owners, second by Councilwoman Vincenzi
.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on looking at the fact that
the concrete plant was able to get theirs and they didn’t
have to go through the same process. She asked how that
occurred. City Manager Williams felt it boiled down to
semantics. The concrete batch plant came about as a
request of a corporation buying property in the park and
that was part of the due diligence. From staff’s
perspective they view concrete batch plants to be
manufacturing processes because they are producing an end
result. They believe it has already been addressed in the
form of manufacturing processes.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if the City Attorney agreed with
that. City Attorney Ansay confirmed she did.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
B.Utility Service Area Agreement – staff
recommending approval of a Utility Service Area
Agreement by and between the City of Edgewater,
City of Oak Hill and County of Volusia, and
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Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
authorize the Mayor or City Manager to execute
the Agreement
Director of Environmental Services Terry Wadsworth made a
staff presentation.
City Attorney Ansay recommended if Council is inclined to
approve the agreement that they just make whatever internal
clarifications to the document they can to ensure the
previous commitment on the wastewater capacity is reflected
here. It isn’t really that clear.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if they should include that in
the motion. City Attorney Ansay informed her they could
approve it based on the fact that they resolved this
remaining issue as raised by the attorney and that would
cover it.
Councilwoman Rhodes suggested they come back because she
didn’t know what city Attorney Ansay’s recommendations
were. City Attorney Ansay informed her her recommendations
were really clerical in nature and they deal with the fact
that the agreement they had in place in exchange for
providing the water capacity they have the equivalent
wastewater capacity allocated to the City. This agreement
as it stands right now talks about our end giving the water
but it doesn’t talk about the wastewater capacity. There
is a separate agreement for that but there is also a clause
in there that talks about this agreement superceding all
previous agreements. She wants to make it clear they
reference the other agreement as it may be amended in the
future because they are talking about doing an additional
agreement and as long as that is incorporated that is fine.
It is just a legal issue to make sure they are protected in
the other agreement.
Councilman Vincenzi asked about Oak Hill wanting the water
for developments such as South Waterfront Park and
Lighthouse Cove. Mr. Wadsworth informed him they had a
couple new ones on the drawing board. They don’t want to
go ahead and pledge capacity they don’t have so they just
want the chain of events to make sure they do before they
barter with the developers.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if the infrastructure was already
in there. Mr. Wadsworth informed him they would have to
work with Volusia County on that. We don’t have an
Page 34 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
agreement with Oak Hill. We gave the capacity to Volusia
County. Oak Hill wants to make sure Volusia County is
going to in turn give them the capacity for the development
in Oak Hill.
Councilwoman Lichter asked about having another situation
with Volusia County. Mr. Wadsworth informed her we have a
couple of agreements in place right now with Volusia County
but none with Oak Hill.
Councilman Vincenzi confirmed the City wouldn’t be paying
for any infrastructure. Mr. Wadsworth informed him there
wasn’t any infrastructure involved. Just the sale of water
at the point of connection at the meter at Boston Whaler.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked why the City of Oak Hill doesn’t
do a contract with Volusia County to ensure they get this
water. She asked why the City of Edgewater is being
brought into it. Mr. Wadsworth informed her they are.
This is an agreement with Volusia County and the City of
Oak Hill as well. The water the City pledged to Volusia
County, Volusia County told them it was for their
development so they want to make sure it is clarified in
the agreement.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated so we trade the water to the
County and they don’t give it to Oak Hill, what are they
going to do. Mr. Wadsworth stated our agreement is with
Volusia County.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve the Utility Service
Area Agreement by and between the City of Edgewater, City
of Oak Hill and County of Volusia, and authorize the Mayor
or City Manager to execute the Agreement on behalf of the
City of Edgewater all after the recommendations of the City
Attorney have been incorporated, second by Councilwoman
Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
C.Engineering Services Work Order #6 – staff
recommending approval of proposal from Quentin L.
Hampton Associates, Inc. for monitoring well
design, bidding and construction oversight for an
estimated cost of $22,860.00 and authorize the
City Manager to execute the work order
Page 35 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
Director of Environmental Services Wadsworth made a staff
presentation.
Councilwoman Lichter asked when the City applied for the
Consumptive Use Permit that we haven’t gotten yet. Mr.
Wadsworth informed her the permit expired in August 2003.
The process started approximately six months prior to that.
Councilwoman Lichter stated and now they tell you they want
this. They are getting harder to get. They have to get
this to do what they need.
Councilwoman Rogers stated this amount according to the
work order indicates it is a not to exceed the $22,860 and
the City is going to be responsible for the permit. She
asked approximately what the permit would cost. Mr.
Wadsworth asked if she was talking about the permit for the
well drilling itself. Usually they are $250 or $500.
Councilwoman Rogers stated and this is not a budgeted item.
At the same time she is looking at the attached proposal
from CCI Consulting and she doesn’t see a total on it but
then she sees the line items cross reference back to the
bid prepared by Quentin Hampton and those are just
allowances. If those amounts go up, wouldn’t the bottom
line also goes up even though their letter said it is not
to exceed the $22,860. City Manager Williams informed her
they would authorize a change order and come back before
Council.
Councilwoman Rogers stated so the not to exceed isn’t
really accurate because they have built in their proposal
the allowances, which means it is still a little opened
ended. She feels this is a little bit of a double
negative. Mr. Wadsworth explained St. John’s onsite could
request something that is not in there and they are going
to have to comply with it, which is why he left it open
ended.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Lichter made a motion to accept the
engineering services proposal from Quentin L. Hampton
Associates, Inc. for monitoring well design, bidding and
construction oversight for an estimated cost of $22,860.00
and authorize the City Manager to execute the work order,
second by Councilwoman Rhodes
.
Page 36 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
D.Memorandum of Agreement – staff recommending
approval of an Agreement with the Volusia County
Health Department regarding rabies control
activities within the City of Edgewater and
authorize the City Manager to execute the
Agreement
City Manager Williams stated they would like to continue
Item 9D. They plan on having a special meeting so they
would like to pull that from the agenda. The County has
notified the City they want to do some modifications to the
agreement and they have not received these as of today.
10. OFFICER REPORTS
A. City Clerk
City Clerk Wadsworth reported that ECARD has presented
another 40 petitions to her to take to the County to be
verified.
B. City Attorney
City Attorney Ansay had nothing at this time.
C. City Manager
City Manager Williams had nothing at this time.
1) Tentative Agenda Items
Mayor Thomas stated they needed to put the approval of Map
A as a resolution from the City Council. He will explain
further when it comes up what is protected.
11. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Linda Small
, 1629 Willow Oak Drive, asked about the
$22,860. She asked how they know if these items are bid.
City Manager Williams stated they retain five continuing
professional services contracts for engineers and they go
out and shop those services we need and bring them back.
Page 37 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
Dot Carlson
, 1714 Edgewater Drive, representing ECARD,
stated she got a call from her attorney before she left for
the meeting that ECARD will not be able to intervene in the
Zeller/Green lawsuit but they will be able to intervene on
any lawsuits that come before the City concerning the 35-
foot height. ECARD will be able to assist the City with
any lawsuits that come before them.
City Attorney Ansay clarified that the order did come out
today. ECARD wasn’t given the right to intervene in all
future vested rights vested determinations that come before
the Council. They are going to be allowed to intervene in
the issue of whether the height amendment is valid and
whether or not the City had the authority to make those
vested rights determinations as they go forward on a case-
by-case basis. It’s not whether they can participate in
all of those. It’s whether the City has the authority to
make them here as opposed to having to go to court for
everyone. They were denied the ability to intervene on the
other issues they sought.
Ms. Carlson state that is what she said.
Mayor Thomas asked how many people are in ECARD. Ms.
Carlson stated probably over 150.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if Ms. Carlson was elected to
present the group. Ms. Carlson informed her she found the
group. She incorporated the group and funds most of it.
Carol Ann Stoughton
, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated she
wished the Council would finally wake up. No matter how
many people that are in ECARD is not the answer or the
question. The people that voted against the high rise and
for what ECARD stands for have spoken. She has just been
given a copy of the $15,000 survey that is running around
town wanting to know how they rate ECARD as opposed to how
they rate the Edgewater City Council and how you rate
managing the City’s finances. When you put flyers out like
this, tell about the mismanagement and debt that has been
going on all this while and that is where everything has
branched out from, poor management. They go on to make
statements that ECARD was supposed to have said or done.
From what she hears the people are quite annoyed with what
is going on. It is just another waste of money spent to
try to say that because high rises aren’t here our taxes
are going up. Why don’t you really say why our taxes are
Page 38 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007
going up and how much money has been spent for water meters
and everything else that has gone on in this town. It is
sad to say but perhaps someday there should be an attorney
general’s investigation into the finances over the past
five years. If she went out for a petition, she was sure
she would get signatures over night. It is very hard to
get signatures when they have trespass orders filed against
them. She would like to see the Council allow people who
want to have a petition to be able to stand somewhere
without the fear of a policeman coming up or a threat being
made against you or an investigation made against you
because you people don’t like the fact that they get out
and speak and say what they want. She didn’t think the
Mayor came to a meeting ever until she brought him here
because she was his campaign treasurer. The Mayor knew
full well what was going on with the Miami Tract because
he, before the public utilities commission, applied for the
water rights out there for his club members. They know
what is going on.
Mayor Thomas stated that was a false statement or a lie or
whatever you want to call it. Miami Corporation applied
for the water rights out there because Brevard County came
100 feet from Volusia County and drilled a well. Brevard
County was going to feed all of Titusville with the Miami
Corporation’s water. That is why the Miami Corporation
formed a water rights and yes they purchased water from the
Miami Corporation and they paid $.03 last year for their
purchase.
ADJOURNMENT
12.
There being no further business to discuss, Mayor Thomas
adjourned the meeting at 9:40 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Lisa Bloomer
Page 39 of 39
Council Regular Meeting
May 7, 2007