04-16-2007 - Regular
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Page 1 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
CITY COUNCIL OF EDGEWATER
REGULAR MEETING
APRIL 16, 2007
7:00 P.M.
COMMUNITY CENTER
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
1.
Mayor Thomas called the Regular Meeting to order at 7:00
p.m. in the Community Center.
ROLL CALL
Mayor Michael Thomas Present
Councilwoman Debra Rogers Present
Councilman Dennis Vincenzi Present
Councilwoman Harriet Rhodes Present
Councilwoman Judith Lichter Present
City Manager Jon Williams Present
City Clerk Susan Wadsworth Present
City Attorney Carolyn Ansay Present
INVOCATION, PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
There was a silent invocation and pledge of allegiance to
the Flag.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
There were no minutes to be approved at this time.
3. PRESENTATIONS/PROCLAMATIONS/PLAQUES/CERTIFICATES/DON
ATIONS
A. Deborah Green, WAV, presentations to Edgewater
Garden Club and City of Edgewater
Mayor Thomas read a proclamation declaring April as Water
Conservation Month and presented it to Deborah Green of the
Water Authority of Volusia.
Deborah Green, Water Conservation Coordinator, Water of
Volusia, expressed her appreciation to Councilwoman Lichter
for her support of Ms. Green’s efforts over the years. She
has been a mentor to her to keep water conservation on the
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Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
forefront. She then commented on the landscaping that was
done at Menard May Park. She presented certificates to
Peter Mascaro to give to the other members of the Edgewater
Garden Club.
Mr. Mascaro thanked the City of Edgewater for providing the
red mulch at the park. He feels it really enhances all of
the plants.
Ms. Green commented on Menard May Park winning second place
throughout the State in the Institutional Category in the
Native Plant Society “Design with Natives” competition.
She presented a plaque to Leisure Services Director Jack
Corder.
B. Eldon McDirmit, McDirmit, Davis, & Puckett,
presenting the Comprehensive Annual Financial
Report (CAFR) for fiscal year ended September 30,
2006
Kelley Leary
, McDirmit, Davis & Puckett, made a
presentation regarding the CAFR for fiscal year ending
September 20, 2006. She announced that the City received
the Certificate of Achievement for fiscal year ended 2005
nd
for the 22 year in a row.
Ms. Leary then went over the Financial Section of the CAFR
with regard to the Management’s Discussion and Analysis.
She highlighted items on Page 6, Statement of Net Assets;
Page 16 – Governmental Funds; Page 19 – General Fund
Statement of Revenues, Expenditures and Changes in Fund
Balance – Budget and Actual. She then referred to the
Statistical Section by highlighting Page 98 - Full-Time
Equivalent City Government Employees by Function/Program
(1) Last Ten Fiscal Years.
Ms. Leary then went over the Other Reports Section with
regard to the Management Letter, which outlines certain
things that they are required to address to the Auditor
General. She went over the Prior Year Audit
Recommendations they had and what was done to improve upon
those and the Current Year Recommendations.
Ms. Leary then made a Powerpoint presentation with regard
to the seven unfavorable ratios included in the Auditor
General Financial Condition Assessment. (Attached) Most
of the unfavorable ratios are due to the cash balances.
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Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
Councilwoman Rogers asked that since they have some
extremely serious unfavorable ratios that they go over some
of the inconclusive ratios.
Ms. Leary then went over some of the inconclusive and
favorable ratios (Attached).
Ms. Stoughton called out from the audience and asked what
the total debt was. She stated it should be around $45
million. Ms. Leary confirmed it was around that.
Mayor Thomas informed Ms. Stoughton she was out of order.
Councilwoman Rogers asked about the benchmark and taking
into account the City has a business fund, Water & Sewer,
and the million dollar transfers that every year come from
that fund into the General Fund and whether it would
distort that benchmark due to other cities not having that
same kind of income. Ms. Leary informed her that was
strictly total long-term debt divided by population. It
has nothing to do with transfers. It is simply the amount
of debt outstanding compared to the population.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she would think they would be or
should be ahead of the game because of the transfer coming
from the Water & Sewer Fund and it should have stayed
within it and been used to pay that debt down. A large
portion of the City’s debt has to do with the debt within
the Water, Sewer & Stormwater areas.
City Manager Williams mentioned the financial indicator
only applying to the governmental fund. Ms. Leary stated
the Auditor General sets up the ratios. Governmental debt
doesn’t usually have pledged revenue.
Ms. Leary continued her Powerpoint presentation by going
over Financial Indicators 10, 11, and 13.
Ms. Leary then went over Financial Indicator 12 with regard
to Debt Service Expenditures in comparison to total
expenditures.
Councilwoman Lichter asked Ms. Leary if she was saying this
debt has nothing to do with the fact that sewers and roads
were required in a particular place in the City because
those are being paid in a different manner. That has
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Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
happened to them in this City verses some other surrounding
cities. City Manager Williams informed her this ratio is
governmental again. He commented on what encompasses
Governmental Funds with regard to Financial Indicator 12
and what this addresses. Ms. Leary informed them to see a
breakdown they could look at Page 51 of the CAFR.
Ms. Leary commented on why in a lot of ways she felt the
financial statements for this year looked pretty good.
They had excess of revenue over expenditures in both
governmental and business type funds. It is just that
excess was invested in the capital and it’s just affecting
the cash balances, which half of the unfavorable ratios are
related to the cash balance. It is something the Council
needs to address going forward. They need to get the cash
built back up so they have a little bit of a reserve.
Mayor Thomas asked City Manager Williams to explain what
Ms. Leary meant when she spoke of capital. City Manager
Williams commented on the capital projects that have been
done over the last eight years. They have had a lot of
cash outflow related to those capital projects.
City Manager Williams went over the Powerpoint presentation
with regard to cash flow. (Attached) He commented on why
decisions are being made today with regards to direction in
terms of initiating ideas for controlling our expenditures.
Based off of these trends, internally they start to get a
little bit nervous in making sure they have enough cash to
pay their payables and making sure the employees get paid.
He then went over the number of days of operation the City
has in the bank in the event we get a disaster. At one
point, we had about 290 days of a cash cushion in the bank.
Today we are sitting at 19 days. He then went over a
comparison of operating income and referred to Page 19 in
the CAFR. He mentioned asking the employees to come
forward and provide solutions to help turn the ship around.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if they have the figure yet from
the actuary where they are going to need to calculate for
the pension balances. City Manager Williams informed her
they did have that figure but he didn’t have it off the top
of his head but he would get it during the break and
provide it to her before the end of the evening.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked how close it was to what they
budgeted. City Manager Williams thought they under
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Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
budgeted by about $30,000 but he didn’t have the numbers.
He again agreed to get them during the break.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on a statement made
indicating that we have an excess of revenue over expenses
in the General Fund. She asked if it would be good to say
they don’t need to do transfers this year from the Water &
Sewer Fund to the General Fund. City Manager Williams
explained the excess revenues that were generated in the
General Fund for this year was as a result of the non-
operating segment and it specifically relates to the sale
of the ParkTowne Industrial Park property. That is a one-
time revenue source. He feels they need to try and back
away from making their decisions based off of those non-
operating revenues and start relying a little more on
operating.
Councilwoman Rogers stated the financials are historical.
What is done is done. It just tells them what happened in
the past. There is nothing telling them about their long
term or long range with regard to the debt service from
ParkTowne as well as the debt with the Water & Sewer Fund
and the interest payments. She asked City Manager Williams
for a report next time. She knows they are going to be
going over this during budget so perhaps they just want it
at that time. Looking back at the audited reports and
everything that is not included within them, that affects
them. She feels the reports are somewhat distorted because
it is historical and she believes it still paints a
brighter picture than what it really is in this City. She
feels the cash situation, even if they didn’t have the
situation with the property taxes, they have current issues
and they have things that are going to hit them that they
need to look at now. She feels the reports are historical
and aren’t looking at long term.
Ms. Leary referred to Pages 43 through 51. They have all
the disclosures of all the commitments the City has in the
future for capital leases and other long-term debt.
Councilwoman Rogers informed her it wasn’t part of the
report. Ms. Leary informed her it isn’t part of what the
Auditor General is asking for.
City Manager Williams stated they went back and looked at
the additional fixed cost they have added in the budget
over that same period of time, since 1998/1999, and the
City has added a little over $2.3 million in fixed cost
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Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
that they have to account for in terms of debt service,
principle and interest expense that will be incorporated
into the operating. Typically they do come before Council
when they have the budgets before them. Recognizing that
this situation does get complicated by pending tax reform.
They need to make some changes now and get themselves a
little bit more of a cash cushion.
Councilwoman Rogers stated she thinks of it as the
employees of the City. Whenever the pension plan doesn’t
perform well the City has to kick in to bring that up.
When an individual makes more money every year, does that
individual run out and spend it? Some people do but some
people will realize they are going to end up paying taxes
on that. They will save that money, perhaps in a deferred
sense, so they aren’t paying taxes on the increase because
they have already adjusted to a certain amount of revenue.
In the City last year, again property taxes increased over
30%. The City didn’t save any of that and the City needed
it to live on. She feels that based upon what decrease we
receive in revenues this year, they need to cut all costs
according to that percentage and look at what their
requirements are according to the Charter and their debt
and go down the line. They need to treat this as if it is
one person on a budget rather than many pieces. If they
don’t start doing something now, they are in serious
trouble. She knows the financials look great but it’s
still not far enough down the road.
City Manager Williams stated they have directed the
departments to plan on a 30% reduction. They feel a 30%
reduction in expenditures using 2007 as the base year
provides for the much needed property tax relief and it
addresses the situation the Council has before them
tonight. If they were to look at this year’s budget, they
can walk into it automatically knowing they need to come up
with $1 million, $500,000 to address the transfers from the
Water & Sewer Fund and $500,000 to put back in cold hard
cash to start correcting some of the trends.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on in the City summary where
it says the primary responsibilities of the City Manager
are to implement the policies of the elected officials.
She asked City Manager Williams if he wanted to avoid the
$1 million transfer from the Water & Sewer. She would say
they have that million dollars. Let’s pledge that they are
going to take half of that and apply it to the debt and
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Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
take the other half to start building up the cash. Back in
1998/1999 the City had $8 million and they don’t have that
now. She expressed concern with the City only being able
to exist for a handful of days if a terrible hurricane
should hit the area.
City Manager Williams explained a lot of the reasoning for
reducing their dependency on the transfers is the Water &
Sewer Fund has no cash in it.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she has been here over 15 years
and during that time the City’s capital expenditures have
tried by the desire of the citizens as well as the Council
to make the quality of life better. She spoke of the
citizens voting for the YMCA and things of that nature.
She commented on many of the grants the City gets being
matching grants.
Councilwoman Lichter commented on the CAFR not being
presented in the past as it was today. She spoke of
receiving general suggestions in the past and they have
always tried to live up to those but showing this trend in
such graphic detail puts a different slant on it.
City Manager Williams stated by no means is he suggesting
that any of the capital projects that the City completed
were not worthy projects and that they did not improve the
quality of life for the citizens. He feels it is time for
them to sit back, take a breath, regroup, and put some
money back in the bank. During that time, they will be
able to look at Senate Bill 360, which requires the City to
submit a capital improvement program as an element as part
of the Comprehensive Plan that identifies five years of
capital expenditures. The first three years have to be
funded with dedicated sources, looking at grant funds for
years four and five. They have been very aggressive and
everybody has benefited. Now it is time to sit back and
take a breath, put some money in the bank and then they can
re-evaluate where they go from here based off of the new
capital element.
Councilwoman Rhodes agreed with City Manager Williams that
they shouldn’t have any capital expenditures until they
have a capital expense fund and it has some money in it.
Councilwoman Rogers stated they have to remember the City
Manager was our Finance Director. He gave information
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previously to the City Manager. The information they have
tonight is given to them because the City Manager allowed
it to be given to them. She feels that needs to be
commended. He knows what they want to see based upon what
they went through last year. She feels he is going to do
what is necessary and they have to look at this in a
business sense. They can’t get emotional about this. This
affects 200 employees and over 20,000 people. Her hope is
that the department heads will work more closely with the
people under them and that people will understand that this
isn’t a personal thing. They have the whole City to look
at. They don’t want the City to go bankrupt. They want
the City to grow and flourish. She doesn’t want to have
services from the County. She wants to have services from
the city. At the end of the day it is always the bottom
line. How much is it going to cost? This is just the
beginning of the information that is going to be fed to the
Council when they start the budget process.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated City Manager Williams has asked
every department to submit a budget that is 30% reduced.
She hopes that applies to Council as well. City Manager
Williams informed her it does.
4. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizens spoke:
Pat Card
, 3019 Willow Oak Drive, commented on being the
Chairman of the Board for a Charter School and when they
contracted with James Moore & Co. to do their audit, the
first document they gave them was their 39-page Charter
that defines all of the things they have to do and not do.
Mr. Card stated it appears to him that they are not in
compliance with the City’s Charter in two areas. He stated
they have a restriction on borrowing in their Charter. It
appears to him that might have been exceeded. They also
have a minor problem with the fact that they have for at
least five years not complied with the Charter in regard to
the reserves. If this weren’t in the Management Letter, he
would be surprised, unpleasantly.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated it is in the Management Letter
and this is the first year they have complied with their
reserves. We are within our Charter as far as borrowing.
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April 16, 2007
Mr. Card stated he is glad to know they are in compliance
with both this year.
Dominic Capria
, 606 Topside Circle, stated he was concerned
with the deficit in the Stormwater & Sewer. He understands
that they transfer funds into the General Fund to
accomplish paying for capital spending. He is concerned
with ParkTowne Industrial Center. It hasn’t been broken
down in this report. How much of that deficit that they
acquired in these two funds has gone into the
infrastructure of the ParkTowne Industrial Center. That is
Phase I. He is worried about it because Phase II is coming
up. If they hadn’t sold that land in Phase I, they would
not have met the Charter requirements. He doesn’t know
what is going to happen with Phase II. He would like to
know approximately how much of that went into ParkTowne.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated actually they made $1 million
last year. City Manager Williams stated they made $1
million in sales. The General Fund has been transferring
revenue to the Storwmater Fund in an effort to help it
accomplish some of the capital projects related to
ParkTowne Industrial Center. Hindsight is always twenty-
twenty. If he could go back and change things, he would
certainly take that project and pull it out and put it into
a separate fund and account for it separate. That didn’t
happen. They can only learn from history and in the event
they undertake a project of this nature in the future, they
will separate that accounting and have it in a separate
type of Enterprise Fund. He couldn’t give a total
accounting of how much has been spent out there in terms of
Stormwater. Mr. Capria asked if he could get that in the
future. City Manager Williams informed him certainly.
Carol Ann Stoughton
, 2740 Evergreen Drive, felt when City
Manager Williams was Finance Director he should have ratted
on the previous City Manager. In nine years time, the City
has lost over $7 million. She feels City Manager Williams
knew exactly what was going on and should have blown the
whistle. She feels he will pull the City up perhaps out of
this and she is thankful to the press to finally put the
truth in the paper. She had been asking for over two years
time to find out what the City’s debt is, which was at that
time $45 million. Mr. Hooper would never tell them because
nobody wanted them in the know. Now it is down to $45
million. She didn’t think back when they sold that
property they met the Charter requirements. She would like
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April 16, 2007
an investigation. She would like the Council to
investigate what was done at that time because the City was
not in compliance with the Charter. She said City Manager
Williams also said that they have and we pay out $450,000
to employees. City Manager Williams informed her that is
for one month. Ms. Stoughton informed him in his
department alone with perks or pensions there is $307,000.
The little guy that works for the town that picks up the
garbage and the leaves, what is he getting. He is being
scared out of his wits. Those guys deserve a commendation.
Salaries up here should be brought down and those little
guys should be brought up. All those guys under $40,000,
she feels that is a sin. She would like to get a job be
making $50,000 or $60,000 or $72,000 in this town.
Ms. Stoughton would like to know what happened with the $7
million. She asked if everyone knew they were paying
$315,000 a year for 15 years on the ParkTowne fiasco, which
debt isn’t up until 2026. That was a sin. The persons who
are responsible for that should be held accountable. The
past City Manager put the City in this debt. It is a shame
that the City let this happen. They should have known what
was going on and done something about it. Now we are in
debt. She feels by robbing Peter to pay Paul, the City is
going to raise the sewer rates, water rates, and retention
pond rates, that is a sin. She feels they should buckle up
their belts and outsource many offices up in the top before
they belly up and cut everybody else out of their pensions.
She feels they have a right to know what their debt is.
She feels better management has to be in place.
Bill Glasser
, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, stated normally he
doesn’t pay too much attention to New Smyrna but he came
out of his purple haze one day when he saw that the
developers were talking to the utilities staff and he was
interested in seeing what it was all about since we are
probably going to be in a similar situation in the not too
distant future. There was a meeting to determine who pays
for the utilities that are going out to Venetian Bay and
other places west. It was interesting reading especially
when he got the third paragraph from the end. A gentleman
was talking about what they had done running water lines
out to Venetian Bay and what they have already
accomplished. He says that interconnects to Port Orange
and Edgewater reuse systems are also slated. He was
wondering if Edgewater is going to start providing
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April 16, 2007
reclaimed water so those folks can water their golf
courses.
Department of Environmental Services Director Terry
Wadsworth stated he thought that was a mistake. They do
have plans for additional water interconnects along Mission
Road. That is the first he is hearing about reclaimed
water.
Mayor Thomas informed Robert Lott he had to approach the
podium. Mr. Lott started to speak and Mayor Thomas
informed him he needed to wait in line and approach the
podium. Mr. Lott informed him he was going to provide some
input to the City Manager.
Mike Visconti
, 316 Pine Breeze Drive, stated he would like
to address the twelve firefighters in Edgewater who want
outside negotiations to join a union. He suggested they do
not join this union. He suggested they get a grievance
committee amongst themselves. The unions don’t come cheap.
They have to pay dues every month. Those same union dues
they could put in the bank or invest it somewhere. The
money would always be there and they could divide it
amongst themselves or invest it. He said Councilwoman
Rhodes said no matter how many unions there are you can’t
get blood from a stone. He also said Councilman Vincenzi
said they could join the union. They might feel happy
about it but it doesn’t mean they will benefit from
benefits or raises or anything. He again suggested they
look into it and get themselves a grievance committee of
five firefighters and go the Council or the Chief because
he understands the City has been good to them for the past
eighteen years. He didn’t know why they wanted to get an
outside negotiator at this point. He feels it is the wrong
time. He wished they would consider it and do it amongst
themselves.
Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Lott if he wanted to come up and say
something. Mr. Lott informed him no.
Andy Anderson
, Pine Tree Drive, stated the auditor tells
them tonight that the average cost for debt service in
communities throughout this area is 5%. Then she said our
debt service is 14%, which is almost three times what the
other communities are paying in this area. He would like
to see that change as soon as possible.
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Dot Carlson
, 1714 Edgewater Drive, representing ECARD,
th
stated on the 4 of April ECARD turned in 413-signed
petitions, I-95 density, to the City Clerk’s Office to be
th
validated. Last Thursday, the 10 of April, she was
informed that the City Attorney is in the process of
determining if those petitions can be validated since they
were collected in 2006. She cannot find any part of the
Charter that states petitions collected one year prior to
submission are invalid. To date the City has not notified
or informed her as to the decision of the Attorney. She
knows under the Charter they have 20 days to certify the
petitions. She feels the City will have more time to start
the validation process due to the fact that the City
Attorney has not determined as of today if the City has to
even accept those petitions at all. She feels the City is
attempting to deprive the citizens of Edgewater of their
Constitutional rights under the First Amendment to petition
the government.
City Attorney Ansay stated the ECARD group submitted
signature cards or petitions to the City Clerk. The City
Clerk then transmitted them to the Supervisor of Elections.
The Supervisor of Elections office is responsible for
verifying the signatures under State law. She received a
call on Thursday of last week a notice from the Supervisor
of Elections office that they had concerns that the City
never approved the language in the petition. This dates
back to last year. These petitions were originally drafted
at the same time as the 35-foot height amendment. There
were three measures that were floating around last year.
Ultimately only one got on the ballot. The Supervisor of
Elections Office contacted her because they were told that
the date the City had approved the language was provided to
them by Ms. Carlson and it was dated May or June of last
year. They wanted to verify with her that the City did
indeed approve the language back on that date because they
had concerns some of the signatures predated that date.
She informed her she hadn’t reviewed any language, that she
was new to the City and that they would track it down.
Tonight she was provided documents by City Clerk Wadsworth.
She had also been provided with a few documents from the
City’s Paralegal on Friday, which were inconclusive. They
have correspondence in to the previous City Attorney but to
date it appears as if there has never been any review by
the City of the language submitted on that petition that
says it is in compliance with the Statute. They have
nothing to indicate that a request was ever made that the
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City do that until now. They are sorting it all out. As
she was provided documents tonight, they have no indication
that a request was ever made for the City to verify and
approve that language so the signatures could be made.
There is nothing in the Charter that requires the City do
that before the signatures are made. That is a position
the Supervisor of Elections is taking when they go through
their process. The issues are what they are. The laws are
very clear in this area. She hoped to have more
information for Council at the next meeting.
Trish Whitaker
, 3124 Pine Tree Drive, stated she was here
to talk about the Animal Shelter and some options. They
know they are running out of solutions for the shelter and
they know the Southeast Volusia Humane Society has failed
to renew a contract with the City, which is leaving the
City with very few if any options at all. They also talked
about scrapping the shelter. Unfortunately the City has
animals there and the City is going to continue to get
animals in the City. She asked Council if a private group
were willing to purchase the shelter would the City be
willing to work with that group. The ideas they have
planned are very simple. They are planning possibly a
private kennel and non-profit shelter to contract with the
City and they would also have possibly a private clinic or
volunteer services for the vets within the shelter area.
There is a very interested buyer at this time. They are
planning on putting a proposal in for the next Council
meeting. She feels this would be a win-win for everybody.
Dave Ross
, 2803 Needle Palm Drive, wanted to dispel what
was considered a rumor. Miami Corporation is interested in
developing much of their property.
Mr. Ross stated he had documentation that they are
interested in doing 25,000 acres. He had an e-mail from
County Councilman Jack Hayman. At the last meeting he
requested that the Council consider a resolution
recommending that the voters of Edgewater sign the two
petitions. One of which has just been discussed. The
other is the petition to put on the ballot amending the
State Constitution, which would require voter approval for
Comprehensive Plan changes throughout the State. One of
the issues he raised was the potential Miami Corporation.
It was referred to as a rumor and is no longer a rumor.
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Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
Mr. Ross asked Council to consider letting the citizens of
this State control what happens to it and pass a resolution
recommending these two ballots. If they don’t feel that is
the way to do it, he asked the Council to publicly say why
they don’t want to do it.
Mayor Thomas called a ten-minute recess at this time. The
meeting recessed at 8:20 p.m. and reconvened at 8:30 p.m.
5. CITY COUNCIL REPORTS
Councilwoman Rogers had nothing at this time.
Councilman Vincenzi had nothing at this time.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she wanted to answer Mr. Ross’
question. Regarding the first part concerning the petition
for west of I-95, 1 home per 20 acres. She feels this is
too restrictive and too arbitrary. The second thing, voter
approval for the Comprehensive Plan changes. She has no
problem with that. It makes her life easier.
Councilwoman Lichter had nothing at this time.
Mayor Thomas commented on rumors that were floating around
the City that a bunch of jobs were going to be eliminated
and a bunch of City workers couldn’t sleep at night. City
Manager Williams called a meeting last week and he asked if
he could attend. They just don’t know what is coming down
the pike on the tax reform. All they have done is
instructed City Manager Williams to have Plan A, B, and C.
They want to plan for the worse and hope for the better.
He asked the City employees to come to the Council
meetings. He hopes they keep coming. They asked the City
employees to give them some ideas. Nobody knows better how
to trim the fat than the employees. He talked to some City
employees this week and he was really impressed. They said
they were made more aware of what was going on. They are
now turning off lights and cutting their engines off to
save money. He stated you couldn’t ask them to do what you
don’t ask the top to do. If you start crumbling from the
top, then the whole organization crumbles. He is going to
surrender his cell phone tonight. He hasn’t claimed any
mileage and has been to many meetings around Volusia
County. He is going to terminate his insurance program.
If they want to give him a 30% cut in his pay, that is okay
with him too.
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6. CONSENT AGENDA
There were no items on the Consent Agenda to be discussed
at this time.
7. PUBLIC HEARINGS, ORDINANCES AND RESOLUTIONS
nd
A.2 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-44, City of Edgewater
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning
Map to include 17.63+ acres of land located
southwest of Edgewater Lakes Subdivision Phase 1a
(Northstar Lane) as P/SP (Public/Semi-Public)
st
rezoning
() 1 reading 1/22/07, Item 7G
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2006-O-44 into the record.
Development Services Director Darren Lear made a staff
presentation.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
Miranda Fitzgerald
, Law Firm of Lowndes, Drosdick, Doster,
Kantor, and Reed, 215 N. Eola Drive, Orlando, representing
the Board of the Southeast Volusia Hospital District,
stated she was there because of the consideration the
Council has been talking about for some time about an
animal shelter on this site. It is a permitted use under
that zoning category, not a conditional use. The property
immediately to the south of this site is 71.5 acres that is
controlled in three different ownerships. The managing
member of those ownership groups is the Hospital District
board. They annexed the 71.5 acres of that property a
couple of years ago into the City. In the master plan they
proposed, they are proposing a hospital on the site
immediately contiguous to where they would be proposing the
animal shelter. They would appreciate when the time comes,
if it is going to be an animal hospital they would like to
have some dialogue with the City when they are into the
design. She expressed concern with noise and stated if
there is a hospital immediately adjacent one day, the
compatibility of a hospital and animal shelter would be a
concern of theirs. In the zoning code, the only
restriction and the only expressed concern is adjacency of
animal kennels and animal hospitals to residential uses.
Page 16 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
They would like to be invited to the table if and when the
City is considering the design of that facility.
Jason Gambone
, Director of Planning, SeaGate Companies, 185
Cypress Point Parkway, Palm Coast, echoed some of the same
concerns that were just raised. They have the Edgewater
Lakes Subdivision. He believed there were five to ten lots
that directly abut the subject property and they have
concerns due to the nature of the proposed use. He asked
for consideration of the City at the time that they are
prepared to do some site planning. They would also like to
have a seat at the table to make sure their future
residents and the future citizens of Edgewater are properly
buffered or protected from the proposed use.
Mayor Thomas thought they could do that in a motion
addressing that.
Councilman Vincenzi cautioned everybody about agreeing to
allow everybody who may have a problem with this project to
participate in discussions. He can see a hospital having a
valid point of contention with noise. He isn’t sure about
a residential development having a valid concern.
Councilwoman Lichter stated there is a temporary shelter
operating now. The animals are in basically. Where the
hospital in particular is going to be located verses the
possible area within that large 17.5 acres, there are 2
acres very remotely far away from the hospital facility
with a distance of space in between. She agreed with
Councilman Vincenzi. They are talking more than animal
shelter. They are talking water types of facilities for
the City also. They are talking even in between that space
of police and fire types of administrative buildings.
Right now their greatest problem is people are shooting on
the property the City doesn’t own. The distance in
proximity isn’t close in either case. She doesn’t have a
problem with talking with people under any circumstances.
She feels planners should talk to people on both sides.
She feels in the end the decision would come out favorable
for both types of activities that the City has planned and
several more.
Councilwoman Lichter stated if things work out properly
they actually saw animals, especially cats, they have now
in various nursing homes and facilities because of the
relief they bring to patients. Some have adopted some of
Page 17 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
the animals. She doesn’t see it necessarily a conflict
because of the space involved with the land usage.
Councilwoman Rhodes didn’t see what it would hurt. She
feels with your neighbors you need to talk and find out
their concerns. It doesn’t mean they are going to bow to
their concerns. Those concerns should be heard. She
doesn’t have a problem with this.
City Manager Williams stated it isn’t something they need
to word into the motion. They have taken notes. In an
interest of being good neighbors, they could certainly sit
down at the time they begin to move forward and listen to
what their suggestions are and try to be a good neighbor.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she was going to predicate her
motion by saying she thinks a discussion should precede the
building of anything.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-44, City
of Edgewater requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning
Map to include 17.63± acres of land located southwest of
Edgewater Lakes Subdivision Phase 1a (Northstar Lane) as
P/SP (Public/Semi-Public), second by Councilman Vincenzi
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
st
B.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2007—O-05, Sid Peterson
requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan
Future Land Use Map to include 79.18+ acres of
land located south of the Taylor Road and Glencoe
Road intersection as Low Density Residential with
large scale comprehensive
Conservation Overlay (
plan amendment
)
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-O-05 into the record.
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation.
Glenn Storch
, Law Firm of Storch, Morris & Harris, made a
presentation on behalf of the applicant. The City has
already received a donated easement through the middle of
the property in which the utility lines lie that goes to
Page 18 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
the sewage plant. Water & sewer is available to the site.
It is high and dry. The applicant can meet all of the
requirements as far as the new Land Development Codes.
They have requested this be changed to low density
residential, which is appropriate for this area. He
commented on the master development agreement including a
number of provisions that were required pursuant to the
Planning & Zoning Board. They tried to look at this as a
vision for what the rest of Edgewater would look like.
They have also taken into consideration Council’s desires.
Mayor Thomas asked for Council comment.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if the yellow area was the
subject property. He asked what the white area was.
Attorney Storch informed him it was an existing borrow pit.
Mayor Thomas disclosed he has been on the property many
times and this is a high sand ridge with sand pines.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizens spoke:
Dot Carlson
, 1714 Edgewater Drive, stated she has not been
on that property. It is dry except for where the lakes
are. She has a friend that lives off of Taylor Road and
they want to know where the access roads are coming out of
there. She asked if it is Glencoe.
Attorney Storch pointed out where the access road was. Ms.
Carlson asked if the only access road was off of Glencoe.
She feels it looks like there is going to be a traffic
problem. She questioned it being County. She sees a
problem with the folks in the County. They will wait and
see on that. She informed Attorney Storch he knows what to
do with the tortoises. They do not bury.
Carol Ann Stoughton
, 2740 Evergreen Drive, stated when the
developers come in and their top-notch lawyers, they have a
requirement in the County to build X but when they come
into the City they get everything they want. She hopes the
Council considers the County isn’t going to help them if
Glencoe Road has to have anything done to it and the
builder isn’t going to do it. They need to consider all of
the developments coming into Edgewater because that is one
of the reasons we are in the mess we are in. We have
portable schools and a need for more services with no money
Page 19 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
to do it. She feels it should comply with what the County
had as far as people allowed on the property in the first
place. They come to the Council and over the years they
vote everything in and that is a sin.
Attorney Storch stated in the development agreement itself
the applicant will be required to pay for all the cost of
development on this site. There would be absolutely no
contribution from the City whatsoever. Once this property
is annexed into the City of Edgewater and developed, the
tax base is in Edgewater, not the County. There is a basis
for doing this. This is a planning process as much as
anything else. What is the right plan for that area? Is
this the right area for this? In this particular case the
Planning & Zoning Board and Planning Department said yes.
This is one of those areas where he feels they should be
directing growth because this is the high, dry land. It is
the area that presently has growth around it. It is
everything the City has asked for as far as a good location
for development in the future. If it is done with good
planning and a development agreement, he feels they will be
proud of the results and it will be financially
advantageous to the City.
Councilwoman Lichter stated at this moment all they are
voting on is the taking in and annexing this piece of
property. They aren’t really talking about a plan and
going through the stages.
Attorney Storch informed her they are voting on the Comp
Plan Amendment, which sets this as Low Density Residential.
Councilman Vincenzi asked Attorney Storch if this is the
beginning of a process. Attorney Storch informed him that
was correct. Councilman Vincenzi asked about no agreement
being made as to how it is going to be developed. Attorney
Storch informed him no. Councilman Vincenzi stated they
still have to see plans and negotiate. Attorney Storch
informed him that was correct. The particular hearing they
are having now sets the Comprehensive Plan designation.
The staff has recommended low density residential. Next
they will have the first reading of a zoning amendment that
will go through a master development agreement dealing with
the types of uses that can be there. They can amend that
as they are going through the process. They will not have
a second reading on these until the Department of Community
Affairs has a chance to review this and make their
Page 20 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
comments. During that time they can work together and deal
with the zoning issues on the site. After the rezoning,
they work out the site plan review and all the other
requirements. This is the very beginning of the process.
Councilwoman Rogers stated City Manager Williams gave them
an update on the Edgewater commercial projects but asked if
he had also given them one for the residential projects.
City Manager Williams informed her it was in the packet.
Councilwoman Rogers feels this sounds like a good project
compared to what they have had that they have already
approved. What she likes is the low density. They don’t
know yet what the project will include. She asked the time
frame. She is looking at all the projects they have
approved and it is stagnant. Permits aren’t being pulled
and things aren’t being done. She expressed concern with
annexing another piece of property and that means the City
will end up having to give more water, the impact on the
roads. She doesn’t want to make a land developer upset.
She doesn’t think it is fair to say no, not at this time
because they are probably going to end up doing it.
Attorney Storch commented on this being an enclave area.
The plan of the developer is to start this as soon as
possible. They aren’t looking at doing this as an
investment. They are looking to get this project rolling
and they are going to examine the market. There may be
some changes to the master development agreement. Whatever
it is, it will still be low density residential and will
still be consistent with the highest standards. He spoke
of this being gorgeous property.
Councilwoman Rogers stated it is different than some that
they have sitting there where nothing is happening. She
hopes the design would be something more unique than what
they have sitting on the plate right now. Something that
is of a little higher caliber than what Edgewater has
currently. The City needs that.
Attorney Storch commented on the waterfront being one of
the things that makes this a marketable project. That is
very important right now.
Councilwoman Rogers questioned them having ideas as to what
they are going to do. Attorney Storch informed her they
did. Councilwoman Rogers asked him to talk more about
Page 21 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
that. Attorney Storch explained they are looking at a
combination of single-family, estate lots, high-end lots,
and perhaps a cluster of town home units around the lakes.
Part of this is trying to deal with what will happen in the
future. He commented on a real issue for Edgewater right
now is trying to create the north/south corridors. This is
one of the segments that will be very important for
creating the north/south corridor. They have been trying
to incorporate this into their planning process.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on this being on the east
side of I-95 and where the north/south road would come.
She mentioned if Old Mission becomes a north/south road
they will have to do something as far as four-laning to get
to Old Mission Road. Attorney Storch informed her they
weren’t looking at Old Mission. Councilwoman Rhodes stated
he was looking at Glencoe Road to Cow Creek. He commented
on the road being used currently by the City to access its
Sewer Plant. They will not have just one north/south
access. The City will probably end up eventually with
planning, with several north/south points with regard to
hurricane evacuation. He spoke of it taking twenty to
thirty years to complete a road.
Councilwoman Rogers commented on the developer incurring
the cost for the north/south going through this piece of
property and the general public could use it. Attorney
Storch informed her that was right and stated the design
for this particular one would provide a road through the
middle of this that could eventually be connected.
Councilwoman Rogers asked if they were planning on the
north/south being two lanes. Attorney Storch informed her
yes. Councilwoman Rogers asked if there is a way it could
be written into the agreement for this annexation that it
has the reserve right-of-way on each side because of the
potential for it becoming a four-lane. Attorney Storch
informed her that was something the Planning & Zoning Board
through of as well so they have created additional setbacks
to allow for a larger lane if necessary. Mr. Lear informed
them they would be talking about that during the next item.
City Manager Williams commented on traffic studies and
concurrency review that will be done. He commented on the
ordinance passed by Council addressing the proportionate
fair share for roads. He also mentioned school
concurrency. All of the reviews are in place.
Page 22 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
Councilwoman Rogers stated but at the same time if they put
it in their motion and put it in stone from the beginning,
not just assume the studies are going to done, they need to
make sure it is black and white and on each document so
there is no room for misinterpretation. City Manager
Williams referred to Senate Bill 360. Attorney Storch
confirmed many of the things they were discussing are in
black and white in the development agreement. This
particular item is only the Comprehensive Plan Amendment,
which states Low Density Residential.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated in all the years she has been on
the Council never has a developer come here and they have
asked him if he intends to go forward with the project and
they said no. They all say yes. Whether they do or not is
a whole different story.
Mayor Thomas asked about the north/south connector they
were talking about. He asked if there was a piece of
Massey property in between. Attorney Storch informed him
there are a number of pieces that would have to be dealt
with. When they are planning for these road systems, they
need to start establishing where those corridors are going
to be. Mayor Thomas mentioned the base of that road
already being there. Attorney Storch confirmed it was a
dirt road.
Mayor Thomas mentioned they are talking about annexation.
Mayor Thomas commented on the different properties on
Glencoe Road. He feels this fits in with their plan of
variety. This looks good to him.
Bill Glasser
, 1703 Needle Palm Drive, stated this has to be
the first time he thinks ever that he has ever seen a
developer say he wanted to have a four-lane road through
the middle for his development. He commented on what
Indian River Boulevard has become in Florida Shores, a
four-lane racetrack. He can’t imagine anybody wanting to
live like that.
Attorney Storch pointed out he didn’t say he wanted it.
This is what the Planning & Zoning Board and Planning
Department has recommended so they allow for it just in
case it is ever looked at.
Page 23 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
Mayor Thomas feels they have strayed because they are
dealing with annexation.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2007-O-05, Sid
Peterson requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan
Future Land Use Map to include 79.18± acres of land located
south of the Taylor Road and Glencoe Road intersection as
Low Density Residential with Conservation Overlay, second
by councilwoman Rhodes
.
Councilman Vincenzi asked if they got a second and seconded
the motion. Councilwoman Rhodes stated she already
seconded it.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
st
C.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2007-O-06, Sid Peterson
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning
Map to include 79.18+ acres of land located south
of the Taylor Road and Glencoe Road intersection
as RPUD (Residential Planned Unit Development)
and approval of associated RPUD Agreement for
rezoning
Villas at the Lakes ()
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-O-06 into the record.
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation. He has talked with the applicant and they
have expressed a desire for the option to at a later date
put in the PUD Agreement the option to plat all of this as
single-family lots. They will bring the change to the
agreement back before council at the second reading after
DCA has issued a notice of intent for the future land use.
If they do go to all single-family lots, it would be a
total of eighty-eight single-family lots.
Glenn Storch
, Law Firm of Storch, Morris & Harris, made a
presentation on behalf of the applicant. The most
important thing is to make sure there is a market out there
for what they are dealing with. They are looking at
various options. Anything they do at this point will be
done easily within the low-density residential structure.
It is possible they are going to reduce the number of units
on this site and that would provide a better marketability.
They will have the plan for Council for the revised site
Page 24 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
plan by the second reading. All the other provisions,
other than the actual number of units would probably stay
the same. They may come back at some point and reduce the
number of units.
Councilwoman Lichter stated she was curious about the state
owned parcel. Attorney Storch informed it really is just
an old FDOT borrow pit. He pointed out the green area
being owned by the state but the other lakes are owned
entirely by Hanson/McCaskill. When this is done it will
look like it is part of a total environmental system.
Councilman Vincenzi asked what the net acreage is on the
property. Attorney Storch informed him 79.18. Councilman
Vincenzi asked him what the buildable acreage is. Attorney
Storch informed him under the density systems, there is
nothing in the 100-year flood plain and no wetlands on the
site so it is pretty much close to that. Mr. Lear informed
him it was 3.7 units per net acre.
Councilman Vincenzi wanted to know the acreage after you
take out the lakes and the state owned property. Attorney
Storch informed him they didn’t include the state owned
property in the acreage count because they don’t own it.
Councilman Vincenzi asked the acreage after you take out
the lakes. Sid Peterson responded that it was 44 acres
without the lakes.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizens spoke:
Carol Ann Stoughton
, 2740 Evergreen Drive, asked why they
have to make the town this much bigger. By the time they
are done, she thought they were talking about 200 acres,
maybe not just from Mr. Storch and Mr. Peterson. She asked
why they have to keep making the town bigger when we have
debt already and they have trailers for the children to go
in. It will take more police, more fire. Why do they have
to keep rezoning and annexing land? She feels the land in
our town is big enough and it is time they stop the
developers. Let them go to the County. Why do they keep
coming here? She feels the town is big enough.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated this land is in the County and
he could build in the County and the County gets the
Page 25 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
revenue from it. We don’t but yet the City still has to
provide the services because it is right at our City. She
says if they are going to have to take the abuse they bring
with the traffic and schools and other issues, then they
should get money for it.
Mayor Thomas wants to have a little say on what is being
built out there. If the County has it, they won’t have any
say.
Dot Carlson
, 1714 Edgewater Drive, asked what the net
density was on the land that the County allows at this
time. She then asked the use. Councilwoman Rhodes
informed her it was rural. Councilwoman Rhodes informed
her rural transitional. Ms. Carlson asked how many units
he could build on it while it stays in the County.
Attorney Storch stated if it is rural transitional they
could go down to one unit per acre. Once you are allowed
to have utilities the density could probably change.
Ms. Carlson stated Attorney Storch always does a good slide
show and when every time he has come with them to present
something it looks great. So did the condos and they kept
morphing. She asked if they were going to morph this
around on them. They have some acreage coming in and it is
going to look great too. If they are going to build it,
build it. Get the roads in, get the people in and the rest
of them can move out.
Councilwoman Rogers stated normally with developments she
is always the first one to say no. Sometimes she does it.
The development last meeting she felt she had to say yes
because it was in our Comp Plan and our land use.
Sometimes she doesn’t care because she is looking at the
wetlands. If she could pull out a couple of the ones that
have been approved that she didn’t vote for, she would.
She would put this development in a stack to say these
should have been approved. The ones they have sitting on
the table right now are right off of Old Mission Road and
they are low, swamp and wet. It doesn’t look like the Army
Corp and St. John’s are doing their job. She hoped they
would. This development she doesn’t think is in that same
league. As they are hearing from the Mayor the types of
land it is. She feels these are all positives. This is
one development that doesn’t have the same negative
attributes as the others. She is going to have to vote yes
on this one.
Page 26 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
Councilwoman Lichter feels every parcel of land has a
personality. This project fits the personality of this
piece of land. Other projects they have approved in the
past also fit the personality of that land. She thinks
there is a need of this but she also thinks there is a need
for other types of housing. She believes in all types of
housing in a community. Everybody can’t afford this.
Sometimes she feels they should concentrate on a diversity
of homes.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2007-O-06, Sid
Peterson requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map
to include 79.18± acres of land located south of the Taylor
Road and Glencoe Road intersection as RPUD (Residential
Planned Unit Development) and approval of associated RPUD
Agreement for Villas at the Lakes, second by Councilwoman
Rogers
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
nd
D.2 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-45, Sid Peterson
requesting annexation of 79.18+ acres of land
located south of the Taylor Road and Glencoe Road
intersection; cont. from 4/9/07, Item 7A
annexation
()
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2006-O-45 into the record.
Attorney Storch stated this is a piece that belongs in the
City and will be a tremendous financial benefit to the
City. Councilman Vincenzi asked him if they are going to
start building right away. Mr. Peterson stated they are
going to try. That is why they are thinking about going to
smaller lots. Attorney Storch pointed out even if they
aren’t building anything right now just having it in the
City will increase the tax base without any services.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing and entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2006-O-45, Sid
Peterson requesting annexation of 79.18± acres of land
located south of the Taylor Road and Glencoe Road
intersection, second by Councilwoman Lichter
.
Page 27 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0.
Mayor Thomas called a fifteen-minute recess at this time.
The meeting recessed at 9:20 and reconvened at 9:35 p.m.
st
E.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2007-O-07, Glenn Storch
requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan
Future Land Use Map to include 20.28+ acres of
land located south of Two Oaks Drive and north of
th
27 Street as Low Density Residential with
large scale comprehensive
Conservation Overlay (
plan amendment
)
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-O-07 into the record.
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation.
Glenn Storch
, Law firm of Storch, Morris & Harris, stated
this is totally consistent with the neighborhood
surrounding it. This is clearly what was intended for this
area. This is an enclave of the City and totally
surrounded by Edgewater. Mr. Lear pointed out this is the
most consistent City land use following Volusia County’s
future land use which is urban low intensity. This is the
most comparable to low density residential.
Mayor Thomas having not been on this property asked if
anybody had. Mr. Lear stated he was out there a long time
ago when they were building Majestic Oaks.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
Dot Carlson
, 1714 Edgewater Drive informed Mayor Thomas she
had been on the property and told him what vegetation was
on the property and also pointed out there are 15 gopher
tortoises on the property.
Mayor Thomas stated that tells him the property is pretty
high because gopher tortoises do not live in the low lands.
That is the problem they have with the annihilation of the
gopher tortoises because everyone wants to build on gopher
tortoise habitat.
Page 28 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
Ms. Carlson stated in the center of the property there is a
low area. She also spoke of there being scrub jay habitat
on the property.
Councilwoman Lichter asked if the new State law has gone
through yet regarding protection of the absolute relocation
of the gopher tortoises. Ms. Carlson informed her it had
not. She spoke of humane societies now being allowed to go
on property to relocate them. The owner can pay the
mitigation to have them moved to appropriate land. She has
seen land on McAllister’s property where if he didn’t have
any some of those could be put there.
Mayor Thomas mentioned the ordinance that has been drafted
by Volusia County on top of the State ordinance. He asked
if it was in effect yet. Ms. Carlson informed Mayor Thomas
it was going through the process.
There was a brief discussion regarding the incidental take
that can be obtained by paying for a permit to legally bury
gopher tortoises.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Lichter moved to approve Ord. 2007-O-07, Glenn
Storch requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan
Future Land Use Map to include 20.28± acres of land located
th
south of Two Oaks Drive and north of 27 Street as Low
Density Residential with Conservation Overlay and with all
diligence make appropriate arrangements to relocate
tortoises that are found on the property even if the State
has not finished their amendments concerning that subject,
second by Councilwoman Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
st
F.1 Reading, Ord No. 2007-O-08, Glenn Storch
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning
Map to include 20.28+ acres of land located south
th
of Two Oaks Drive and north of 27 Street as R-3
(Single Family Residential)
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-O-08 into the record.
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation.
Page 29 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
Mayor Thomas pointed out he left three acres of common open
space and drainage retention in the middle. Attorney
Storch informed him that was based on the typography of the
land. They will meet or exceed all requirements that are
currently under consideration for gopher tortoise
protection.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Ord. 2007-O-08, Glenn
Storch requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning Map
to include 20.28± acres of land located south of Two Oaks
th
Drive and north of 27 Street as R-3 (Single Family
Residential), second by Councilman Vincenzi
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
nd
G.2 Reading, Ord. No. 2006-O-46, Glenn Storch
requesting annexation of 20.28+ acres of land
th
located south of Two Oaks Drive and north of 27
annexation
Street; cont. from 4/9/07, Item 7B ()
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2006-O-46 into the record.
Mayor Thomas opened the public hearing.
The following citizen spoke:
Harry Sabals
, Two Oaks Drive, stated they keep showing the
picture coming in out of Majestic Oaks but asked if they
th
were going to have the entrance on 27 Street still.
Attorney Storch informed him they were.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing and entertained a
motion.
Councilwoman Rogers moved to approve Ord. 2006-0-46, Glenn
Storch requesting annexation of 20.28± acres of land
th
located south of Two Oaks Drive and north of 27 Street,
second by Councilwoman Lichter
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
st
H.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2007-O-09, Jason Gambone
requesting an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan
Future Land Use Map to include 35.91+ acres of
Page 30 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
land located south of Oak Street, east of US1 and
west of the Indian River as Commercial and High
Density Residential with Conservation Overlay
large scale comprehensive plan amendment
()
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-O-09 into the record.
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation. Due to the lack of this proposal’s
compatibility issues with surrounding uses of low to medium
density residential in the area, staff has recommended
denial.
Jason Gambone
, Director of Planning, Seagate Companies, 185
Cypress Point Parkway, Palm Coast, made a presentation
regarding the Comprehensive Plan and the associated PUD
zoning at the same time. He commented on the property
having Volusia County’s outdated future land use map
designations and the designations that currently exist on
the property. He commented on several meetings that were
held with the previous City Manager prior to annexing. The
message that came back to them was that the City was
interested in having higher densities along the riverfront
and did want some commercial uses on U.S. #1. At the time
they understood the City was interested in expanding the
tax base and more diversity in housing and some increased
job opportunities. Mr. Hooper was very clear in telling
them the City definitely wanted very well planned projects
that respected the natural environment. This is what
induced their company to annex the property back in 2005
and become part of the City. Back then they reviewed the
Comprehensive Plan and Land Development Code as it was
written at that time which confirmed what Mr. Hooper was
saying. He spoke of the application being submitted in
March 2006 and this being six months prior to the City
adopting the Land Development Code changes that included
the 35-foot height limit and also changed the definition of
density from a gross calculation to a net calculation and
it took out areas in the 100-year flood plain. Their
attorney feels they should be vested from those
regulations. He commented on why he feels their proposal
meets all other aspects of the Comprehensive Plan and Land
Development Code with regard to the layout of the project
on the property, traffic, and available water & sewer
capacity. A project like this would generate approximately
$1.2 million in transportation impact fees, $2.2 million in
water & sewer impact fees and capital charges, several
Page 31 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
hundred thousand dollars for parks, police and fire impact
fees and about $2.5 million in school impact fees. They
feel the project is environmentally sound. The site has
about 3.5 acres of wetlands and they preserved all of that
except for a small crossing, which had an impact of less
than .1 acre. They maintained twenty-five foot buffers
around the wetlands and a fifty-foot wide shoreline
protection buffer. He commented on reducing the impervious
surface, which allows for 70% open space. He commented on
what they have done to increase compatibility with the
surrounding properties. He further spoke about a project
like this having a tremendous amount of private investment
from an economic standpoint. They estimated the additional
money on the tax roll would be about $170 million at build
out, which would generate over $4 million in annual ad
valorem taxes and over $1.1 million to the City. The
commercial portion of the project would add about 150
permanent jobs. Mr. Gambone passed a handout out to
Council regarding what some of the assumptions were and how
it was calculated.
Councilwoman Lichter asked City Attorney Ansay if she
believed these people have vested rights because of the
date they originally came in. City Attorney Ansay as a
practical matter merely coming in with an application or
having conversations with staff and as a legal matter does
not create the types of vested rights they would get
through a typical vested rights determination. She doesn’t
feel having conversations with staff and/or filing an
application is enough. Based on what she has heard she
would say no but they would have to look at it a little
closer. She commented on a provision in the Code that
deals with vested rights and determination of vested
rights. She also commented on case law that goes back for
years. They have got a very established body of law that
says they have to take pretty substantial steps before you
get to the point of being vested.
Councilwoman Lichter confirmed Mr. Gambone knew about the
height limit and the citizen initiative going through. She
asked if he has thought of a different type group of
housing. Mr. Gambone stated they have thought about that
and they would be happy to sit down with the City and
discuss that. He commented on the one new regulation that
might hurt them worse than the height regulation being the
one where they excluded area in the floodplain from density
calculations.
Page 32 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
Mayor Thomas asked Mr. Lear to comment again on why it was
recommended for denial. Mr. Lear stated it is incompatible
with the surrounding land uses.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she voted against the towers at
this stage of the game for the same reason and she will
vote against this for the very same reason. If it doesn’t
get past this, they won’t end up in court. She will be
voting against this.
Mr. Gambone pointed out the building heights along the
river were limited to 90 feet because of putting the
parking underneath. Councilwoman Rhodes stated it isn’t
the height she objects to it is the density on the river.
Councilman Vincenzi stated out of the 35.89 acres, how much
is below the 100-year floodplain. Mr. Gambone estimated
about 2/3 of the 36 acres being in the flood plain. Only
twelve acres would be outside of that.
Councilman Vincenzi asked Mr. Gambone if they plan to build
on the twelve acres. Mr. Gambone informed him they could
build under the current regulations in the floodplain
provided they are providing compensatory storage. He again
commented on the problem being with the density being
changed from a gross calculation to a net calculation when
the Land Development Code was changed. Basically 2/3 of
the portion they proposed for residential really has no
value.
Councilman Vincenzi stated he was going to vote no because
he doesn’t like high density. This is the exact issue they
ran in with the other set of condos. The next ordinance
regarding the RPUD, as far as he understood if he had a
signed and agreed upon RPUD then they would have vested
rights. He doesn’t feel his verbal agreement with Ken
Hooper entitles him to vested rights. He wasn’t going to
support the next ordinance either.
Councilwoman Rogers stated Mr. Gambone mentioned he was
aware in September 2006 that the Land Development Code was
changed. No one from the organization came to speak to
them and now they are citing that and expressing and
feeling they have vested rights. If she had been in his
shoes, she would have been doing something back then. She
is also going to vote no.
Page 33 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
Mr. Gambone informed her that their legal counsel, Jim
th
Scott, did appear at the September 11 meeting and did make
statements to Council. He feels two people in the Planning
Department is not enough for the amount of applications the
City has coming in. It shouldn’t take 13 months to get to
this point. It is very difficult to have anticipated what
the Council was going to do in September at the point when
they made application in March.
Councilman Vincenzi asked Mr. Gambone if he was saying the
reason they didn’t have an RPUD was because it didn’t go
through City staff quick enough. Mr. Gambone stated they
submitted this back in March 2006 and it is April 2007. In
the thirteen months is when Council changed the Land
Development Code.
Councilman Vincenzi asked Mr. Gambone if he understood that
they don’t get something approved the day they hand it in.
It has to be examined. Mr. Gambone stated of course.
Councilwoman Rhodes questioned the Land Development Code
being changed before September 2006. Mr. Lear informed her
it was in September 2006. Councilwoman Rhodes stated they
knew it was coming at that point in time. Mr. Gambone
stated there had been discussion but no official action had
been taken at that point in time.
Councilman Vincenzi stated even if the Council loved this
idea and wanted to vote for it, the Charter now has a
height restriction. He questioned his buildings being 90-
feet. Mr. Gambone informed him some were 90-feet and some
were 70 feet. Councilman Vincenzi stated because of that
they couldn’t vote for this even if they wanted to. Mr.
Gambone stated that is where the whole issue of the vesting
comes in. It will be up to others to make that
determination. Their counsel does not believe that the
procedure that the City followed when it enacted its
amendments, he felt that procedure was flawed and didn’t
feel it was a legal or proper ordinance.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated regardless of that ordinance she
would still have to vote no.
Councilwoman Lichter felt there were two options. His
attorney really believes and it doesn’t quite seem like he
has a tight knit case for vested rights. If he really
believes that, no doubt they might be in court again. It
Page 34 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
seems to her there is still the opportunity to look at the
property and reestablish his plans to fit what is needed
now and then there will be an opportunity to get something
passed. In some way, they have a right to use their land.
Mr. Gambone stated they weren’t there to try and be heavy
handed. They would like to be able to work out a
reasonable compromise with the City.
Councilwoman Lichter asked Mr. Lear if it customarily takes
thirteen months for all the cases that come in front of
him. Mr. Lear stated generally no. They had a lot of
issues going on that year with the Land Development Code
changes and some other items that were before Council.
Then there was the number of agenda items were to be
shortened and that was part of the process.
Councilman Vincenzi asked Mr. Lear if there was a maximum
amount of time that they can’t take longer than to review
plans. Mr. Lear informed him there was not.
Mayor Thomas listed three reasons why he is not supporting
the project. Reason #1, it exceeds the 35-foot height
limit Charter amendment. Reason #2, it is not compatible
with the surrounding developments and Reason #3 he doesn’t
care what kind of arrangements you make for stormwater
runoff. When you have that may people and that many
rooftops and that many driveways, those heavy metals are
going to eventually wind up in the river. It is his goal
to have zero runoff into the river and to keep the river
pristine for the future.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rogers made a motion to deny Ord. 2007-O-09
due to the proposed density not being compatible with the
surrounding existing uses and the Planning & Zoning Board’s
recommendation of denial, second by Councilman Vincenzi
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
st
I.1 Reading, Ord. No. 2007-O-10, Jason Gambone
requesting an amendment to the Official Zoning
Map to include 41.87+ acres of land located south
of Oak Street, east of US1 and west of the Indian
River as RPUD (Residential Planned Unit
Page 35 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
Development) and approval of associated RPUD
rezoning
agreement for River Club ()
City Attorney Ansay read Ord. 2007-O-10 into the record.
Development Services Director Lear made a staff
presentation. Staff is recommending denial of this based
on inconsistencies with the Land Development Code and
Charter.
Due to there being no comments, Mayor Thomas opened and
closed the public hearing and entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rogers moved to deny Ord. 2007-O-10 due to the
considerable number of inconsistencies with the Land
Development Code and due to the fact that the two items
that Mr. Lear mentioned, Section 21-50.02 and Section 21-
58.02 (c )(3), second by Councilman Vincenzi
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
City Attorney Ansay reported that while they were
discussing this item it was brought to her attention that
there was no public comment on the previous agenda item.
She suggested the original maker of the motion move to
reopen the agenda item, reconsider it, open it back up for
public comment and if there are any comments then pass the
motion again. She apologized.
Mayor Thomas apologized. He thought he opened it up for
public comment.
Councilwoman Rogers made a motion to reopen the first
reading of Ord. 2007-O-09 for public comment, second by
Councilwoman Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
Mayor Thomas asked for public comment.
The following citizen spoke:
Carol Ann Stoughton
, 2740 Evergreen Drive, asked if there
was any way they could work with this man. He has waited
thirteen months. Councilman Vincenzi stated he thought
they invited him to come back to negotiate but not the
Page 36 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
present proposal. None of the denials mean he can’t do
anything. He has to come back with another plan.
Ms. Stoughton asked Mr. Gambone if he would be coming back
with another plan. She felt he looked depressed. She felt
it would be nice if they could work something out.
Mayor Thomas closed the public hearing.
Councilwoman Rogers moved to deny the first reading of Ord.
2007-O-09 due to the proposed density not being compatible
with the surrounding existing use, second by Councilwoman
Rhodes
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
J. Res. No. 2007-R-04, urging the State Legislature
to reconsider the methods used to determine
changes in the State’s tax code
City Attorney Ansay read Res. 2007-R-04 into the record.
City Manager Williams made a staff presentation.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked who wrote the resolution. City
Manager Williams believed it came from the City of Holly
Hill.
Councilwoman Lichter stated when she first read it, it
really doesn’t make proper sense. You think it might say
to reconsider the results of what they did not the methods
they used. She takes it if they really mean methods to
mean this. There was a Commission appointed and that
commission was not given the time it needed to work out the
tax situation in the State thoroughly. They never asked
for their results. They didn’t have time to finish. That
is not clear of what Holly Hill’s manager really means.
Now you have fifteen cities in the County voting yes
without a clarification of that. She feels the amendments
say they should have waited until there was a thorough
investigation by the Committee that they appointed.
City Manager Williams stated recognizing the clarity
issues, if certain that is something the Council feels is
necessary with the adoption of the resolution, they can
include the clarification points brought forward by
Page 37 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
Councilwoman Lichter in the adoption of the resolution and
go forward.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked City Manager Williams for some
examples of special interest state tax exemptions. City
Manager Williams stated it is a pretty long list such as
escort services, sales tax for sporting event tickets or
sporting tickets. City Attorney Ansay also added legal
fees.
Councilwoman Rhodes felt the only things that should be
exempt are food and clothes and they aren’t.
Mayor Thomas stated he thought what they were doing was
trying to send them a message that they need to try to fix
it. Don’t just put a band-aid fix on it. If they are
going to fix it, fix it.
Councilwoman Lichter felt it wouldn’t hurt to say which fix
should include the results of the Committee that had been
appointed to study the tax situation.
City Manager Williams stated certainly as all the cities
come together to discuss this, quite frequently the obvious
is to wait on those entities to come together to make some
proposals because they believe 60 days to correct this
problem is not practical. That is what the resolution is
trying to communicate.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated she likes the fact they are
giving them an alternative. If every County in the State
is giving them a different way to go don’t they wind up in
the same place they are now.
City Manager Williams stated there is a number of different
ways to approach this problem. They are trying to be good
stewards in participating in that process. They would
suggest they wait on the Tax Reform Commission and the
taxation and budget Groups to come forward with solutions
rather than the Senate or House proposing something. In
conversations today with the Florida League of Cities and
the Association of Counties they were quite sure there
would be something that would come out of this legislation.
To even begin to somewhat think there isn’t going be any
reform out of this legislation they would be wrong. They
suggested it would not end this year and would be back
Page 38 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
before them next year in trying to correct this problem on
a long-term basis.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated they are going to have to
correct whatever problems they create this year.
Councilwoman Lichter stated it is too bad the League of
Cities didn’t come up with one statement for all the cities
in the State.
Mayor Thomas entertained a motion.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to approve Res. 2007-R-04, urging
the State Legislature to reconsider the methods used to
determine changes in the State’s tax code, second by
Councilwoman Rogers
.
The MOTION CARRIED 3-2. Councilman Vincenzi and
Councilwoman Lichter voted NO
.
8. BOARD APPOINTMENTS
There were no Board Appointments at this time.
9. OTHER BUSINESS
There was no Other Business to be discussed at this time.
10. OFFICER REPORTS
A. City Clerk Wadsworth
City Clerk Wadsworth had nothing at this time.
B. City Attorney Ansay
City Attorney Ansay stated she received a letter from the
attorney for the Southeast Volusia Hospital District and
she is requesting that the City consider whether or not the
District is vested under the height restriction as a result
of an existing agreement for annexation that they had with
the City that spelled out height issues. They are going to
meet and talk with folks from the District and they will be
back at some point to give Council a full report.
C. City Manager
Page 39 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
City Manager Williams commented on providing the
Development Services quarterly report to the Council.
City Manager Williams then commented on the contract for
the purchase of the remaining property existing in
ParkTowne from MGM Real Estate Group Inc. The contract
provides for a provision for the property to be sold at
$55,000 an acre for all usable land and $8,000 for that
portion of land that is deemed unusable as a result of
wetland designations and so forth. The contract had a
provision that provides for thirty days due diligence and
thirty days to close. Included in the contract there are
some provisions that would allow the City to fulfill some
of the contract obligations it has for the construction of
Base Leg Drive as well as a time span over a drainage canal
for Rowan Way. Looking at the provisions and working out
some of the negotiations with the proposed real estate
group that he finds that a very attractive provision in
terms of this contract. During the budget process, they
made provisions in the annual budget to go out and secure
financing for the obligations and construction of that road
to the tune of about $237,000 for fifteen years. By taking
this approach they avoid interest expense and would save
the City a little over $1 million in interest expense. The
other provisions it hedges against construction cost in
terms of the obligations for the infrastructure that are
out there and remaining. It also gets the property back on
the tax rolls. One of the problems that exist today is
they have City Attorney Ansay’s firm that represents the
City. During hiring her, one of the services she did not
provide was real estate services. Council did direct that
they would keep Foley & Lardner on to handle the issues
relating to ParkTowne. At this point, he would like for
Council to authorize him to change attorneys and move over
to Rice & Rose out of Daytona Beach. He went to City
Attorney Ansay and requested she provide the City with some
recommendations. She has done so and they have offered to
provide the services based off the same terms of her
contract if the Council would authorize him to do that.
They can get this contract before the new attorney and
allow them to review the new contract as it is written. As
a result of that he has requested an extension of the
contract until the end of May with the intention of
bringing it back to Council on the last meeting of the
month as a regular agenda item for action by Council if
they so choose. Originally when they put a contract before
Page 40 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
Council in January they established a minimum price of $4.5
million for the property.
Councilwoman Rhodes moved to use Rice & Rose for real
estate transactions based upon the same contract prices as
City Attorney Ansay’s firm, second by Councilwoman Lichter
.
The MOTION CARRIED 5-0
.
City Manager Williams commented on the budget time line and
choosing dates that worked well for the Council’s schedule,
ththththth
July 12, 13, or 14 and August 16, 17, or 18th.
Councilman Vincenzi asked City Manager Williams if he had
sent him the dates in August he would have a conflict with.
City Manager Williams informed him no.
Councilwoman Rhodes informed him none of the dates in July
were good for her but the dates in August were okay for
her. Councilman Vincenzi stated they weren’t for him.
thth
Councilwoman Rogers informed him August 16 and 17 were
th
okay but August 18 wasn’t. Councilwoman Lichter stated
th
she would be gone from July 10 through July 21st.
City Manager Williams informed Council he would have
Assistant City Manager Liz McBride contact them.
City Manager Williams stated the reason they chose those
dates was because those dates are before the last Council
meeting in which they plan on having Council establish the
millage rate for advertisement for the TRIM notice.
City Manager Williams commented on the workshop to be held
to discuss the status of his goals. They have identified
th
an hour before the May 7 Regular Council meeting.
City Manager Williams commented on an amendment that was
approved by City Council regarding ParkTowne on September
11, 2006. The Council approved three amendments to the
development agreement. One excluding .9+ acres at the
northern most end of ParkTowne Boulevard to be sold to
th
Volusia County to accommodate the widening of 10 Street,
they added concrete batch plants as a permitted use for
development in Area B and permitted two points of access on
th
any lot or parcel. On January 17, the ParkTowne owners
association met to discuss the amendments due to concerns
relating to the concrete batch plant and two points of
access. The City is revising Amendment #1 to exclude .9+
Page 41 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
acres to prevent the County from incurring costly delays
due to the fact that that amendment has not been signed off
by all the property owners at this point. They are
breaking that amendment out separately and they are going
to ask the owners to execute it so they can get that
th
property sold to the County in the interest of widening 10
Street.
City Manager Williams reported that they have met with the
FOP and presented some proposals regarding benefits and so
forth. The headlines indicate that has not been well
received. He wanted to extend the opportunity to conduct
rdth
another executive session with Council on April 23 or 26
to make sure they are in sync in what areas they need to be
paying particular attention to with regards to the
benefits.
rd
Councilman Vincenzi didn’t have a problem with April 23
th
but he did with April 26.
Mayor Thomas asked if they could wait until after they see
what the legislature is going to do. He asked when their
next negotiation is. City Manager Williams informed him
st
May 31. In light of the financials, they felt it might be
necessary to sit back down. In talking to some of the
Council he has gotten some different ideas and he wants to
provide the situation where they can sit back down and talk
and make sure they are moving in sync together.
rd
It was the consensus of Council to meet on April 23. City
rd
Manager Williams stated they would advertise April 23 at
7:00 p.m. for the executive session.
City Manager Williams stated the Edgewater Citizen Watch
Association with working with Brinks in providing special
offers for security systems. For each referral they get an
installation they will receive a $75 referral fee. They
would like to mail it out in the utility bills. They don’t
have any ordinances that prohibit that. They are going to
distribute it with the employee’s paychecks. He asked if
Council had a desire to do this.
Councilwoman Rhodes asked who gets the $75. City Manager
Williams informed her the Edgewater Citizen Watch
Association. Councilwoman Rhodes felt it was a great idea.
Councilman Vincenzi didn’t have a problem with it but
having people complain about literature with their utility
Page 42 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
bills before, he didn’t know if people really appreciated
that.
Councilwoman Rogers stated it didn’t have a political
agenda to it.
Councilwoman Rhodes stated this provides money for that
group.
Councilwoman Lichter had a slight problem with advertising
one firm verses another firm. She didn’t feel this was the
purpose of the newsletter. Councilwoman Rogers agreed.
1) Tentative Agenda Items
There were no Tentative Agenda Items to be discussed at
this time.
11. CITIZEN COMMENTS
The following citizen spoke:
Chris Balmer
, 148 William Street, stated perfect segway
Councilwoman Rogers. He appreciated that. Speaking of
local businesses, he knows ParkTowne apparently has been
sold and he thinks that is great. Talking about using an
attorneys firm in Daytona. He knows they have three to
five local attorneys in Edgewater that could easily handle
a real estate transaction. He knows they have two title
companies and disclosed that his wife owns one of those.
He suggested they try to use local businesses. He feels
they shouldn’t be sending legal work that could be done in
the City outside the City.
City Manager Williams stated they did inquire locally and
those folks that did provide that service locally have
respectfully declined due to some potential conflicts.
Councilwoman Rhodes commented on when they hired Foley &
Lardner and looked locally. They couldn’t find any.
12. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to discuss, Mayor Thomas
adjourned the meeting. The meeting adjourned at 10:48 p.m.
Minutes submitted by:
Page 43 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007
Lisa Bloomer
Page 44 of 44
Council Regular Meeting
April 16, 2007